iPod + Naim DAC?

Well ... being that the DAC is not yet out this is only speculation ... however ...

1) The USB input seams to be dual purpose. First to connect a iPod to which sends digital audio into the DAC. I think this functionality will only work with the iPod not any other "MP3" player. Secondly you will be able to attach a memory stick and play files off this apparently, however I would expect this will only work with files in the root of the stick as there is very minimal controls and no display for navigating - so attaching a player this way would not be effective.

2) Spotify on the iPhones - there is an application in development to put spotify (premium / paid subscribers only) on the iPhone. If it will be accepted by Apple is unknown though. Alternatively there is a AirFoil application which may allow you to send audio from spotify running on your mac (via Rogue Ameoba AirFoil application) to the iPhone.

Eloise

You can also use the iTouch as a wireless streamer I believe...

Again, speculation.....
But at present I've heard nothing about the Naim DAC being able to access the iPod's digital stream.
At present only the MSB dock (which has to have the iPod modified to work with it) and the Wadia alternative actually directly take a digital stream from an iPod.
Apple has worked with Wadia to allow them to access this function.
Any other unit (including the Uniti even with its iLink cable) is accessing output AFTER it's gone through the iPod's own DAC. It's not a pure digital stream.
Whether Naim are working with Apple to allow this I have no idea. But if they are I'd think it's more likely it would emerge in the form of a dock and not a stand-alone DAC.
Just my own thoughts.

I'm pretty sure at the roadshow it was mentioned that the DAC had the correct Apple certified chip in it that allowed the digital stream.

quote:

Originally posted by nap-ster:
I'm pretty sure at the roadshow it was mentioned that the DAC had the correct Apple certified chip in it that allowed the digital stream.

I seem to remember that too, certainly some thing about an Apple certified chip.

quote:

Originally posted by Jon Myles:
Whether Naim are working with Apple to allow this I have no idea.

In light of the HDX not even being able to natively play Apple Lossless, this would be something of a development.....One would presume there would be a 'trickle down' from the DAC if Naim finally are indeed playing ball with Cupertino......

...or vice-versa.

The HDX should be able to play Apple Lossless and AIFF with this next release of software. (I haven't yet tried AIFF yet, oddly enough, as I don't have anything I'd store in that format.)

In the case of an iPod, it is the portable device that does the decoding and playback when used with an authenticated docking device (e.g., the forthcoming Naim DAC)–so there's no decoding or file rendering performed by the DAC when used with an iPod.

There are also a couple tricks coming, specifically in the manner in which the digital stream is handled at the player, in the case of newer iPod designs....

The WAV file playback capability in the DAC functions as a player as well, but this is separate and alternative to the iPod's player.

quote:

Originally posted by Jon Myles:
Again, speculation.....
But at present I've heard nothing about the Naim DAC being able to access the iPod's digital stream.

It was actually commented on during reports from various of the Summer Roadshows

quote:

At present only the MSB dock (which has to have the iPod modified to work with it) and the Wadia alternative actually directly take a digital stream from an iPod.
Apple has worked with Wadia to allow them to access this function.
Any other unit (including the Uniti even with its iLink cable) is accessing output AFTER it's gone through the iPod's own DAC. It's not a pure digital stream.
Whether Naim are working with Apple to allow this I have no idea. But if they are I'd think it's more likely it would emerge in the form of a dock and not a stand-alone DAC.
Just my own thoughts.

Actually you've missed a number of "devices" which do have access to the digital stream from the iPod - various car head units. While you might not class these as HiFi, they do access the digital stream. I've heard it reported (possibly apocryphally) that Wadia only had access to this certification because of a screw up at Apple regarding which license they sent to Wadia - who cleverly took advantage of the mistake. This is why there have been no competitors to the Wadia.

I suspect that Apple's position is that Car Head units are fine because there is no way to record the digital stream, this would be the same with the Naim DAC as far as I see it, however a digital dock like the Wadia can be used to digitally record the output of the iPod which Apple don't want you to be able to do.

Eloise

quote:

Originally posted by David Dever:
...or vice-versa.

Yeah, I'm sure Apple are all ears...!

quote:

In the case of an iPod, it is the portable device that does the decoding and playback when used with an authenticated docking device (e.g., the forthcoming Naim DAC)–so there's no decoding or file rendering performed by the DAC when used with an iPod.

So why the function in the DAC ??? Why not just hook up direct to a NAC ? And, what's all the whoo-ha about a 'Apple chip' use if the DAC isn't even doing any, er, D-A-C-ing...!?

quote:

Originally posted by SC:

So why the function in the DAC ??? Why not just hook up direct to a NAC ?

Decoding and playback in the digital domain still require conversion to analogue.

quote:

Originally posted by SC:

quote:

Originally posted by David Dever:
...or vice-versa.

Yeah, I'm sure Apple are all ears...!

Call them. There's a reason why there are still players out there that don't handle Apple Lossless decoding (as there are also players that do not decode WMA files, lossy or lossless, also due to delays and odd unwritten rituals of licensing for which one can patiently count the knots on one's rope).

Wha ??!

Lets make this simple for everyone....Is the Naim DAC taking the digital stream from a iPod and converting to analogue OR simply acting as a control mechanism for the sound stream AFTER the onboard iPod DAC....?????

Why, with supposedly a month to go before launch we are all still playing 'I know, you don't know' circles in the sand about all this I'll never know....

To be honest the demonstration I heard at the roadshow of a .wav file played out of an iTouch through the DAC was nowhere near as good as the CD2XS/HDX source anyway.

quote:

Is the Naim DAC taking the digital stream from a iPod and converting to analogue

Yes, as explained here and on other posts.

What I think Dave is saying is that the Ipod still needs to decompress the file for the dig out. It's the player and like any server with dig out, rebuilds the stream on the way to the DAC. It's all bit perfect, right? I'm pretty sure this is how it would need to operate as a stand alone player with controls. Not sure about the streaming from a remote source setup but most likely the same as it's the common method for everyone especially if play, forward, pause type controls are used from the Ipod for this also.

quote:

Originally posted by SC:
Why, with supposedly a month to go before launch we are all still playing 'I know, you don't know' circles in the sand about all this I'll never know....

I was hoping that Paul or Adam might give a definitive answer, but then with the launch supposedly so close I hoped the manual might be available; I know, a triumph of hope over experience.

M

@ David Dever:

Could you please explain a little bit further how the Naim DAC will handle WAV file playback? How can I play back my 24bit WAV files? USB memory stick and navigation with the buttons on the DAC? How is the sound quality with a USB memory stick feeding the DAC? Jitter problems this way?

I am asking since I already ordered my Naim DAC and the new CDX 2 as a source without even listening to both. I am about to order a second DAC with asyncronous USB input for playback of my 24bit WAV files via PC/MAC, but maybe I should wait.

quote:

Actually you've missed a number of "devices" which do have access to the digital stream from the iPod - various car head units. While you might not class these as HiFi, they do access the digital stream.
Eloise

Thanks — I didn't know that. (Obviously)
As to the comments on the Apple-certified chip in the DAC — is there not an Apple-certified chip in the iLink? As in many other Made For iPod-approved products. They don't allow access to the digital stream — merely for the unit to be able to control the iPod directly.
It would be a lot easier if Naim just clarified one way or the other on the whole issue of what the DAC will and will not do with an iPod.

quote:

Originally posted by Jon Myles:
As to the comments on the Apple-certified chip in the DAC — is there not an Apple-certified chip in the iLink? As in many other Made For iPod-approved products.

If I recall correctly, the MSB iLink (same technology also used by Chord Electronics) doesn't have any certification. They electronically hack the iPod to create a digital output, where one previously didn't exist. It' is not a product certified by Apple and requires your iPod to be adapted for the dock.

I think we need to wait until the final launch for Naim to clarify what the USB connection can and can't be used for. I've read that there is a white paper due for release with the DAC.

Eloise

quote:

If I recall correctly, the MSB iLink (same technology also used by Chord Electronics) doesn't have any certification. They electronically hack the iPod to create a digital output, where one previously didn't exist. It' is not a product certified by Apple and requires your iPod to be adapted for the dock.

Yes, you're right. I actually meant the Naim n-link! (Trademark name meltdown on my part there!) Sorry.
If I'm not mistaken a number of Made For iPod products have a chip that allows communication between the iPod itself and other devices. Without it they don't work together.

quote:

Originally posted by Jon Myles:

It would be a lot easier if Naim just clarified one way or the other on the whole issue of what the DAC will and will not do with an iPod.

"They" actually have commented to a fair degree considering it is not even officially released yet. It has been brought around the UK it seems and will be in the States soon.

These are known for sure:

a) the iPod can be tethered to the DAC and stream from your iTunes playing on a computer on the same wifi network. (Unknown bit-rate support)

b) The DAC can accept the digital signal from the iPod in a docking manner and play the contects of the iPod. (my understanding)

c) It will be upgradeable with Powerlines, XPS, 555ps, and Hiline.

d) The USB will NOT make the Naim DAC a "USB peripheral" device, i.e. a "USB DAC". You cannot plug it into the USB input on your PC and have your system recognize it as a audio output (bummer but whatever.)

e) If you want to use it as a computer DAC, you will need a PC/Mac that offer a digital output OR use a USB/Firewire-to-Digital converter.

f) You will be able to play directly into USB from flash drives, a la the HDX. (Unknown how large of a drive is acceptable nor what type)

g) If it really upgrades the HDX, as reported, this is going to be a very special box.

hope this helps you a little bit. There are dozens of detailed threads on this topic right at your fingertips. Look for comments from any "Trade Member", "Administrator", or "Moderator". They typically have their finger on the pulse of what is going on.

-patrick

quote:

The DAC can accept the digital signal from the iPod in a docking manner and play the contects of the iPod. (my understanding)

Thanks. That's the crucial part. If it can then it changes a lot of things. Suddenly my two redundant iPods become hard disks with capacity to replace my CD collection at at least the same bit-rate as CD. And maybe later at a higher rate with downloads.
Saves buying a NAS.
If not then I'm just playing an analogue feed into my equipment from the iPod - which I already know has a flat sound.
Either way it doesn't matter. But I'm just curious over the fact that if more and more products are appearing that can access the iPod's digital output then we are entering a different realm. (IE: I can take an 120GB iPod to work and listen on the way on the Tube. Come back home and plug it into the Naim DAC and get the full Naim experience as the file quality will be the same.)
Hope this explains my obvious scepticism about a direct digital stream.
But, hey, let's see!

Jon

quote:

Originally posted by Jon Myles:

IE: I can take an 120GB iPod to work and listen on the way on the Tube. Come back home and plug it into the Naim DAC and get the full Naim experience as the file quality will be the same

Jon

The file quality might be....................

quote:

Originally posted by nap-ster:
The file quality might be....................

Fair point.
And one increasingly being supported by my own non-scientific listening experiences.

So it will work with a flash drive. How bout, say, a 1.5 TB USB hard drive?