iPod + Naim DAC?

quote:

Originally posted by Eric Barry:
So it will work with a flash drive. How bout, say, a 1.5 TB USB hard drive?

It might WORK with a 1.5TB drive, but there is NO way to navigate the files. As far as has been demonstrated it's purely a Play / Next / Previous / Pause / Stop controls -there is no display for any other control.

Eloise

Regarding playing files stored on a hard drive it would be no problem for me to load the album that I want to hear on a USB memory stick and plug this into the Naim Dac if this saves me a lot of money for a good streaming device (like HDX) and if it sounds good. It will be really interesting how good a USB memory stick will sound in comparison to a HDX, iPod and PC/MAC. I could imagine that a USM memory stick beeing a passive device avoids quite a few problems.

Have I really, really just read on this thread that the NAIM DAC has a USB input, but won't actually take the output from the USB port on a PC?

quote:

but won't actually take the output from the USB port on a PC?

Yep - daft isn't it. Just introduce a DAC that doesn't hit your CD player sales and add some rather obscure functionality that with a bit of arseing around could let you stream music.
Then ignore all those that want to play high quality music from a computer and realise the HDX isn't really isn't the solution Naim want you to think it is.

Apart from that i'm sure it's great.

James

It is beyond daft James, it is laughable.

If it were a streamer or sound card. DAC! and I haven't heard a USB DAC that I couldn't better with a TC or ethernet streamer like that funny HDX.

Naim appear to have lost their way, with computer audio.

No Firewire, no USB connection?

OK, probably aimed only at upgrading the CDX2 or HDX then.

Computer users are well served with alternatives, so hardly a disaster but a missed opportunity to widen the DACs appeal. I can understand why allowing a computer a decent connection would cause issues when demonstrated against the transports or HDX.

Joe

I am getting a little confused as to how these posts always end up at the same point criticising NAIM for ignoring computer based transports when you can connect a computer based transport using optical. I asked the question directly why no USB connection for computers and the answer was direct and very straight: NAIM don't like USB connections for audio.

A poster on this forum said that he connected his own computer to the DAC and the sound was equivalent to the CDX2 connected to the same DAC (I believe).

So can someone enlighten me as to why threads circle back to criticising NAIM for ignoring computer audio? Is it because one cannot use USB or FireWire connections? Does this matter if one can use optical (USB DACs seem to be "inferior" to FireWire DACs of which there are only a few unless the USB is asynchronous or pulls the data from the transport)

quote:

Originally posted by DHT:
Naim appear to have lost their way, with computer audio.

Because you can't use a USB from a laptop?

O............K

Not again...

Most DAC are sub-optimal with USB link to computer.
A good USB cconnection will add significant costs with licencing, etc.
A FireWire interface adds costs and requires (significant) driver writing experience by Naim

basically for all these reasons, having a separate computer to DAC interface is (probably) for the best - add a TC Konnekt 8 (FireWire); M-Audio Transist (USB); ESI Juli@ (PCI) or any of numerous other interfaces, for great connection the Naim DAC. No USB isn't a killer IMO.

Eloise

I am no fan of USB ,if they didn't have the skills in house for firewire they should have bought them in, this dac appears half-arsed, we shall see, when is the release?

quote:

Originally posted by DHT:
this dac appears half-arsed

Not being funny but so are your replies

Leave him alone. It's not exactly like the DAC he chose so it must suck whether he's heard it or not.

If they'd spent the money on implementing FireWire, then all the user of computer without FireWire (75% or more at a guess) would moan there was no USB. Also when Windows 7 comes out there would be lots of moaning about driver compatibility most likely.

If they'd added USB, then likely it would have been a basic interface which restricted the SQ and sample rates (ala Bryston, Audio Research et al). The only HiFi company with a decent USB implementation are Ayre and dCS; the rest are severely restricted.

Best (IMO) to have SPDIF interface and users choose their own interface - choosing the implementation to suit their needs: i.e. cheep and cheerful M-Audio Transit or full featured FireFace or anything inbetween or higher as they choose. Also a large number of computers now have adequate SPDIF interfaces built in.

Eloise

Anyone know when the DAC is due out - i'm looking forward to getting my hands on one and having a play ?

quote:

Originally posted by Eloise:
If they'd spent the money on implementing FireWire, then all the user of computer without FireWire (75% or more at a guess) would moan there was no USB. Also when Windows 7 comes out there would be lots of moaning about driver compatibility most likely.

If they'd added USB, then likely it would have been a basic interface which restricted the SQ and sample rates (ala Bryston, Audio Research et al). The only HiFi company with a decent USB implementation are Ayre and dCS; the rest are severely restricted.

Best (IMO) to have SPDIF interface and users choose their own interface - choosing the implementation to suit their needs: i.e. cheep and cheerful M-Audio Transit or full featured FireFace or anything inbetween or higher as they choose. Also a large number of computers now have adequate SPDIF interfaces built in.

Eloise

I agree with much of what you say - but there is a huge market of Mac users. Dacs like the Weiss will provide the Firewire, which js and others have gone on about as being the better interface. Although it's gone a bit quiet since it became clear that the Naim DAC won't carry it.

However, fact remains that the proposed new DAC will require a separate interface (read box) to work well with computers. Time will tell as to whether that is a marketing misjudgement - or an attempt to lock people in to the CDX2 transport/HDX options.

Joe

I seem to remember something said at the roadshow about streaming integration.

Might have been ethernet or wireless(?) I'm not sure.

It also means that you ar relying on another companies design and implementation of the interface, I realise you don't like it Napster but this smacks of marketing,nothing more, much in the same way as the HDX could ( and should ) have offered SQ comparable with the 555 cdp.

quote:

Originally posted by DHT:
It also means that you ar relying on another companies design and implementation of the interface, I realise you don't like it Napster but this smacks of marketing,nothing more, much in the same way as the HDX could ( and should ) have offered SQ comparable with the 555 cdp.

Well at least I've seen/heard/caressed it.

So there..............

quote:

Originally posted by DHT:
Naim appear to have lost their way, with computer audio.

Was there ever a way? Show me an audiophile-quality PC/Mac-based music manager that is full-featured and elegant–and from one vendor...?

quote:

Originally posted by Joe Bibb:

quote:

Originally posted by Eloise:
If they'd spent the money on implementing FireWire, then all the user of computer without FireWire (75% or more at a guess) would moan there was no USB. Also when Windows 7 comes out there would be lots of moaning about driver compatibility most likely.

If they'd added USB, then likely it would have been a basic interface which restricted the SQ and sample rates (ala Bryston, Audio Research et al). The only HiFi company with a decent USB implementation are Ayre and dCS; the rest are severely restricted.

Best (IMO) to have SPDIF interface and users choose their own interface - choosing the implementation to suit their needs: i.e. cheep and cheerful M-Audio Transit or full featured FireFace or anything inbetween or higher as they choose. Also a large number of computers now have adequate SPDIF interfaces built in.

Eloise

I agree with much of what you say - but there is a huge market of Mac users. Dacs like the Weiss will provide the Firewire, which js and others have gone on about as being the better interface. Although it's gone a bit quiet since it became clear that the Naim DAC won't carry it.

However, fact remains that the proposed new DAC will require a separate interface (read box) to work well with computers. Time will tell as to whether that is a marketing misjudgement - or an attempt to lock people in to the CDX2 transport/HDX options.

Joe

Just mentioned firewire here earlier as in TC but I never said that it's the only way or a requirement. Haven't shied away one bit. Always said the TC was a better mouse trap and nice tool. Don't need to pound on it anymore because the 'bit perfect is all that matters' guys that took me to task have discovered that there is a difference which was the point of trying it. Things were far from the perfection I forgot to mention in another thread that if you try it with a L switch it to narrow or you'll make the stream worse by reclocking. Other firewire devices without DICE II I've heard were never as good either so there's more to it. There's also a Lynx card which I beleive Ferenc prefers which is PCI. Non of us that have recommended these things have ever preferred a USB interface.

I don't get why folks don't just wait and see before slamming the thing. Naim have said they have a better way to deal with jitter that should eliminate the need for much of this. We should at least wait to hear if they've pulled it off before commenting on it's interface requirements. If it sound better than your 1394a DAC does via a tos in, does it need that 1394a interface? No idea if this is even possible but it's too early to know what it needs or could benefit from performance wise.

quote:

Originally posted by David Dever:
Naim appear to have lost their way, with computer audio.

Really? Could it be because they're a hi-fi company.
We're talking about a DAC here which no-one (well, few!!!) have heard and everyone's going to have their own opinions on what should/should not be in there. If it's not in there, then don't worry.
If they included everything I wanted they might knock out another 75 per cent of the market.
Having USB and FireWire adds to cost — especially when few users are likely to have both.
Naim are making a product. It might work for you, it might not.
People had a go at Uniti for having bits they didn't want — yet it's brought more people over to Naim in a short period of time then any previous product.
I personally wish my MacBook had a tea-making facility on it but Apple are proving remarkably resistant to this.

quote:

Originally posted by js:
'bit perfect is all that matters'

If you extend this to include 'timing" and also 'decoupling' then I still absolutely believe it to be true. If you also extend it to include a clause something like "if at the entry point to the DAC chip itself" the logic is even stronger and for me inescapable. The point is, though, that if a replay chain sounds different then one of the pre-conditions for equality of listening must have been broken.

The 'fun' is trying to figure out which one

Jon

If you are going to use quotes then at least attribute them to the correct poster. I think you will find that it was DHT who posted the quote about Naim losing their way in computer audio and not the head engineer for Naim's US distributor!

Apart from that, I agree with your post.

Cheers

Jim