One sub or two

Have a read through here, if you haven't already, which was a thread about the n-Sub and the proposal of using two of them.....Phil (from Naim) and good old Tony (tonym) are big fans of utilising two subs and in fact do so....

Steve.

I've not used two, but when I did use one, I found its position to be important (against popular wisdom). It was much better when between the speakers than off to one side, where the whole thing became asymmetrical sounding. Two subs would allow you to achieve good symmetry, as well as have each sub working less hard. The beat of a Nazgul's wing could bottom out my 1000W Velodyne.

One last question gentlemen, when connecting them up to the AV2 is it as simple as using a 'Y' phono splitter ?

Super,

the best solution is to daisy-chain from one sub to the other. The n-Sub allows this (as well as synch and lock so changes to one sub automatically alter the other as well) but not sure about your MK. A "Y" splitter will work but you need to ensure the LFE output on the AV2 can drive two cables without performance loss. You may wish to email Naim to clarify what is required here.

Hi Super.
I have used 3 sub's ( double y-split) on the AV2 sub out-put without noticable drop in performance - And will do it again when my second AV2 - sold the first for number of reasons - arrive back here VERY soon - as in next week if all goes according to plan. Subs' are where more IS better - less fight with cancellation of waves/sound and a much larger area in your listening room with regular bass reproduction. Enjoy

Thanks to everyone who replied and helped, my only hope now is to get the same make and model.

quote:

Originally posted by Super:
One last question gentlemen, when connecting them up to the AV2 is it as simple as using a 'Y' phono splitter ?

I daisy-chain mine ...

... there's a very useful "Line Out" socket on the bottom of the n-Sub that serves this purpose beautifully. ;-)

Phil

quote:

Originally posted by winkyincanada:
I've not used two, but when I did use one, I found its position to be important (against popular wisdom). It was much better when between the speakers than off to one side, where the whole thing became asymmetrical sounding. Two subs would allow you to achieve good symmetry, as well as have each sub working less hard. The beat of a Nazgul's wing could bottom out my 1000W Velodyne.

I know that the old wisdom was always that the source of low frequencies couldn't be identified and so in that respect the location of a sub wasn't critical (Hogwash! I have always been able to tell where a single sub was placed just from listening.) but the actual location of the sub within a room *IS* very important from a performance perspective.

A quick way of settling on a location for a sub that I was taught (and seems to work) is to pop the sub in the usual listening position and walk around the room till you find somewhere where the sub sounds natural ... then put the sub there. Seems to work on the whole.

Phil

There is of course always someone who makes your own dedication to "the cause" seem somewhat lightweight (and anyone that knows me knows that nothing about me is lightweight)...

Try this little sub enclosure here.

Phil

Ohhhhhh shit !....You could have shown me this just a little earlier, I've just had the floor boards up as well....!

Steve.

I definitely agree with the recommendation of using two subs. Placement is important. I'm sorry I can't quickly find the study that I'd like to reference but I'll share a couple points from the study. The study tried combinations of the numbers of subs (from 1 to several) and in various positions. As I recall, the best option, in the context of the test room, was four subs placed two in front and two in back and not in the corners. As I recall the placement was well away from the corners but not so far as to be toward the center of the room.
One of the valuable notes from the study is that using two subs achieves most of the results of using four subs.
So I can't recommend filling the room with subs (they tried that too) but four may be a maximum you'd want to consider.
EnJoy!
Mark

Thanks for that Mark, but my room couldn't accommodate four sub woofers, in fact i'm having difficulty in finding a dealer that stocks a M&K MX-350 sub. If anyone could point me in the right direction i would appreciate it....Mario.

Interesting.

I am thinking about subs. I use an AV2 with a Denon 3800 driving all Sonus Faber speakers via lost of 135's and I have single sonus Faber sub, now two would be interesting if this is a valid upgrade over a better single sub

Here's something interesting I've just learned about daisy-chaining n-Subs.

My pair are currently connected using the low-level inputs - the stereo sockets to my preamp for stereo use and the mono input to my AV2 for Home cinema duties.

Due to the position of the various components (the AV2 lives over the other side of the room from my main stereo) the interconnects between the two subs are of necessity very long so to reduce the length of these and maybe to improve sound quality I was considering connecting the stereo speakers to the high-level inputs, thinking that by taking the feed from the bass speaker plugs of my active SL2s and into one sub the mixed-down mono signal would then be passed across to the other sub via the interconnecting signal lead.

After checking with my dealer who checked with Naim I've discovered this isn't possible, neither is it permissible (nor indeed, practical) to connect up to both n-subs from both speakers in this way.

No mention's made in the User Manual regarding using high-level inputs with daisy-chained subs; this needs to be put right.

So, if you want to use two or more n-Subs, you can't use the high-level speaker inputs. Shame really...

Not wanting to throw a spanner in the works but here goes any way. Why do people use base subs. Is it not better to use a full range speaker? In my surround system I use 4 IMF TLS80s MKIIs. The base is clean very powerfull and I have no need for a sub with all it's associated issues. Get quality full range speakers and keep life simple.

THX will tell you that if you have 2 subs they should be on opposite walls in the middle of the wall.(http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-entertainment/home-theater/surround-sound-speaker-set-up/)

I remember reading a long and detailed article by Harman Kardon who investigated using multiple subs. My recollection was that they concluded that multiple subs did work appreciably better in certain combinations and situations. Generally you had to go up by power 2 so after 1 sub, 2 subs would be a substantial improvement, then 4 subs and then 16 subs. They also found that the best results were obtained by symmetric placement, so if you placed a sub in the middle at the front, then best results were had by having the 2nd one at the back of the room in the middle. If the sub was placed near the right hand front speaker then 2nd should be either near the front left speaker or diagonally opposite on the left back wall.

Well here's the answer to my own question. Two subs is better than one, took delivery of my second MX-350 today and it's absouletly awesome.

quote:

Originally posted by Super:
Well here's the answer to my own question. Two subs is better than one, took delivery of my second MX-350 today and it's absouletly awesome.

Congrats Super,

Look forward to reading your thoughts and how to best integrate them, o...and a few pics would be nice.

Anything else...nope...think I'm done!!