nait 5 v 72/180

Hmm, interesting topic Dave
Sorry, I can't give ya any advice, but to me this question is interesting since I also have a 72/180 combo for sale.
Imho it's not the huge sonic improvement I expected over my Nait-2. (not at the s/h price, let alone when bought new!)

So, that's why I'm also curious what people think about Nait-5 vs 72/180.

regards,
Alco

I would consider the 72/180 combo to be "twice as good" as a Nait5 (even though we can't quantify it in that absolute fashion ). The Nait5 is a nice little amp, but the 72/180 is a serious combo, deserving of serious consideration.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

I went from a Nait 1 to a 72/180. The Nait was soft-focussed in comparison. Everything became much more lively. Still, you might want to consider whether the cost + what you'd get for your CD5 would get you into CDX territory. If so, may want to listen to that in your sistem before you take the plunge.

quote:

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Originally posted by Mekon:
you might want to consider whether the cost + what you'd get for your CD5 would get you into CDX territory. If so, may want to listen to that in your sistem before you take the plunge.

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That's good advice. If it's an option, then CDX/Nait5 is superior to CD5/72/180 (depending on personal tastes, of course).

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Hi all

Interesting to hear Alco's thoughts on his Nait-2.
Although I sold my Nait a couple of years back, I'd owned that amp longer than any other piece of HI-FI and for what I sold it for, I wish I had held onto it.
I cant say i've heard a Nait 5, but the trouble with the 2 is that it is so good for what it costs, (especialy s/h prices) and for those of us on a limited budget It takes big money to better it.
FWIW I would veiw a 72/180 as a stepping stone to a 72/Hi-Cap/250.
Listen to the 72/180 and take it from there. If your not sure perhaps your better off sticking with your Nait for the time being.

Query: Can a Nait 5 power itself as a preamp and feed its output to a 250?

If it can, I'd strongly recommend getting a 250 to use with the Nait 5, then a 72/hi or whatever else is available when you want to changethe preamp. I only heard a 180 once, and I didn't listen long, by choice, so I think a 250 is better than a 180 - but it needs a PSU to power its preamp.

I've been an outspoken opponent of a bare 72, which I found very harsh on source material of normal quality. I'd MUCH rather have a 62/92 or a 62/92 + hicap than a bare 72.

So, overall, I think the 72/180 is not a great compromise. To those of you who have listened and liked, that's great - we may dislike each other's sistems, but we're all entitled to our opinions.

As pointed out above, a CDX may be a better choice for long term enjoyment, and CDXes are getting pretty cheap.

Of course, you could buy the 72/180 and sell it at little or no cost (or even a profit) if your ears are as sophisticated and sublime as mine are. (That IS meant as a joke.)

Regards.

Phil

[This message was edited by Phil Barry on FRIDAY 23 May 2003 at 21:57.]

Having owned a 72/hicap/140 combo, and considering that your Nait 5 has a *-cap on it (Nait 1 and 2 never had this benefit), I would, frankly, spend the dosh on CDs.

UNLESS...your speakers are really underpowered by a Nait. In which case, you may need to jump to a 250 minimum to really move the needle.

The 72/180/*-cap combo will be more microphonic than your current setup, so if you go for the deal be careful what you sit the kit on.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Dave

As ever; only your ears know what's right for you.

The 72/180 has a quite different sonic signature to the Nait 5. It will have (if it's been serviced and is up to spec) a very fast agile sound, with great detail.

The downside of a good 72/180 for me, would be a two dimensional soundstage and a tendency to be a bit aggresive in some set-ups and rooms.

You really need to try a 112/150, to hear the difference. This new combo has a softer character, with a better soundstage and portrayal of spatial information.

Only you can decide which you prefer.

Good luck.

Hi.

I think Greg Beatty gives the right advice here. However, if you have some spare cash you might consider getting a hicap (or two) . What model of the Dalis do you have? I have heard the Evidence 470's with my nait3 and it worked well. The Evidence series speakers are quite easy to drive.

Thanks for all the advice.

I have since purchased the 72/180 combo and wired it up a couple of days ago with the Flatcap on the CD5 & 72 (old Nait 5 removed completely). Comments are as follows:

1. Volume
I usually listened to the nait at about 11 o’clock, so set the 72 at a similar position.
Good God. Hair is still standing on end.. huge difference in this respect. (However, when i tried the 180 with the Nait, there was very litle difference in volume, what's going on there then? System sounded much the same as old..)

2. Slam & Grunt
Increased by a similar amount to No. 1. Speakers really opened up, became 'alive'.

3. Soundstage
Much less than the Nait - instruments more 'in your face', but not entirely unpleasant.. just a bit different.

4. Harshness
Some songs unbearable to listen to. One of the things I used to like about the Nait was the fact that you could play it loud and yet you could still drift off to musical heaven and almost fall asleep.

I am now spending time switching the Flatcap between CD5 only, 72 only, and powering both. The biggest difference in sound is apparent when the Flatcap is powering both, however the harsh treble is irritating. I am now left with a Nait 5 to sell and am wondering if there is a further piece of equipment I should invest in which could eliminate or lessen this harsh treble on some recordings.

To summarise, I feel that the addition of the 72/180 has turned my hi-fi into a much more 'serious' sounding piece of kit and really makes you sit up and listen more.. I mean those closed hi-hat 'tings'... wow.

As usual, all the advice that has been posted above is very good, and I advise others to take heed of (most) of what is said on this forum.

I really should get back to work now....

.. I actually meant 'open' hi-hat 'tings'.... that's what comes of still playing the kitchen pots and pans....

Dave

If you feel the need to spend more money then a Hicap for the 72 or similar would sweeten it up. My experience of running two devices from one supply was not that good. It was better than without but did not really live up to expectations. It may even be better to Hicap the CD and use the Flatcap on the 72!

Milan

Congratulations Dave!

Glad you like the 72/180. It sure is a nice combo.

It does seem though, that in Holland nobody seems to know or realise how good a Naim 72/180 is... I mean, I've got 'em for sale on 2 highly populair Dutch HiFi-sites, for about 2 months now, and not even one person reacted on the ad! (1400,- Euro)
(Ebay 's no option for me.)

This is my experience with the 72/180 compared to my Nait-2.

72/180:
The 180 throws in (a little bit) more drive and control, compared to the Nait-2. I do have quite a small room, and fairly easy driven speakers, the Diapason Micra mk-3 (88db).
The top-end of the 72/180 is crystal clear but, at the same time a bit more refined/polished than the Nait-2.
That's about the only sonic difference/improvements I noticed over my Nait.
So, the 72/180 is not sounding any more open, transparent or detailed than the Nait.

NAIT-2
The Nait-2 is slightly more forward sounding, and the bass does seem to have a little less grunt/drive, but it's not really alarming.
Ultimately the Nait does sound a little bit more lightweight, but in some occasions even a bit faster. (perhaps beceause the bass is not going as deep as the 180 ?, I don't know.)

Overall, considering the huge extra price over the Nait-2 (even at the s/h price) I'd think that in MY situation a 72/180 is money wasted.
And no, I don't wanna spend another big bucks (imho) for a s/h HiCap, before I get on a higher level.
(I'd then rather swap my 72/180 for an LP12 )
Also I find it kinda sad for my trusty ol' Nait, sitting in a closet, without a job

I've never heard the Nait-5, but if it is smoother than a 72/180, then I don't think it's my cup of tea.

regards,
Alco

Dave

You now have a 72 / 180 to power your CD player.

If I was in your shoes I would buy a totally shagged out Hicap (anything over 10 yrs of age) and get it down to Salisbury for a service. The total cost of that will be about £400 and it will be identical to a brand new Hicap RRP of £800+.

It can be added to the 72 and the improvement will be great. The musicality of your kit will increase no end.

Next stage is flog off the 180, and once again buy a shagged out 250 and whip it down to Naim for a service. Total cost about £850 less what you sell the 180 for.

You will then have one of the classic Naim systems which is exceptional..72+Hicap / 250.

You can put anything on that system as your source and it will sound better than 99% of the systems on this planet.

I have that same system in the dining room and I cannot ever see myself changing it.

Regards

Mick

The 72 on its own can sound harsh sometimes, but add a hicap and that harshness goes and you'll find the soundtage opening up as well

"You now have a 72 / 180 to power your CD player."


Mick... thanks for the help.... but not sure I understand the above comment...


Dave

Dave,

a couple of advice from my experience...

leave the system on and let it settle down for 2-3 weeks before making any judgement.

I first started with a 72/180 and had my "wow" moment only 2 weeks after the system had been in the house. Before that, there were some interesting things but also some less intersting phenomenons.

Also, note that these pieces of equipment need a little more setup attention thant a nait5. Let at least 30cm between the 72 and the 180 and at least use a proper audio rack and powerbar. Make sure that no ac cable touches the speaker or signal cables.

Lastly, if you are not yet using NACA5 speaker cables, do not wait and go get some. This was my second wow moment and it costed me around 120can$ (55£).

After this, stop, enjoy the music and buy nothing for 6 months. Upgraditis will slowly go down and the music will come. This is the ultimate upgrade (the least expansive but the most difficult to get) .

enjoy!

Philippe

The 72 without a hicap will sound harsh when playing anything but the best source material!

Easy to cure with a hicap.

Regards.

Phil

Dave -

As to the difference in loudness when the Nait vs. 72 were set at 11 o'clock - DO NOT be impressed by this! You can adjust the gain on the Nait and when set to full gain it should have the identical gain of the 72. Check your Nait owners manual for details.

Harshness - yup - in spades. I sold my 72/hi/140 setup for this reason. The combo was also so "unsmooth" that classical was unlistenable.

In retrospect, this was probably down to either:

1) I didn't have dedicated mains (although the apartment was only 3 years old)

2) I was using ProAcs, which are not forgiving in the least

or

3) I didn't have 'proper' supports. I was using DIY supports.

That said, I have minimal harshness issues with my Nait 5.

Oh, is the SNAIC for your hicap gray or black? The black ones are reputed to sound mucho cleaner.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here