nDAC - can you hear a difference?

Exactly, the operating word here is "subjective"

whether or how much difference between transports with the naim DAC is subjective. And if it is undisputed truth that the CDX2x will beat the living daylight out of a cd5x2, with objective data to back that up, I think it would be in HQ's interest to point that out

I know this is an old dispute, but I can't resist. Listening to music is by nature subjective. So who cares about "objective data," if it goes against your subjective experience?

I am as biased towards Naim as the next person. But I still read the specifications and white paper in the case of the nDAC? Don't you?

Notwithstanding the fact that I am still extremely biased towards black boxes with green logos on them. Same with cars, if you had the money you may buy a BMW Vs, say, a Volvo of similar spec. But you would still be very interested in reading the spec and the theories behind what makes the Bimmer better, before plunking down a whole wad of cash.

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Originally posted by lamby2244:

YOU should deffo try optical - best results for me so far....

I just tried optical on mine against COAX.
The test lasted about 3 seconds then the optical was out and coax back in (it will stay there for sure now).

-
aleg

quote:

Originally posted by JYOW:
But you would still be very interested in reading the spec and the theories behind what makes the Bimmer better, before plunking down a whole wad of cash.

Not really. I'd drive them. And if I was looking for a new car next week the Volvo would drive and ride better. The BMW would have the better engine performance and perceived sophistication. I couldn't get that out of a brochure.

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Same with cars, if you had the money you may buy a BMW Vs, say, a Volvo of similar spec. But you would still be very interested in reading the spec and the theories behind what makes the Bimmer better, before plunking down a whole wad of cash.

I wouldn't ... not interested in the mechanics of cars ... just want to know is it comfortable? is it safe? is it reliable? does it have a decent stereo? .... and how much will it cost me?

When it comes to hi-fi - once again I'm not overly interested in comparing lots of brands before making a buying decision. I mostly just buy Naim after auditioning ... if the Naim product doesn't suit then I'd look to Rega/Linn/Chord ... if none of those suit then I'd probably give up on that product.

When it comes to the TV/Video/DVD ... then Panasonic seems to work OK.

Is a BMW better than a Volvo?
No idea ... but more likely to buy a BMW 'cos I know it drives OK and does what I need ... a Volvo may do this too, but never driven one: quite like the look of the one Simon Templar used to have.

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Originally posted by ROTF:

quote:

Same with cars, if you had the money you may buy a BMW Vs, say, a Volvo of similar spec. But you would still be very interested in reading the spec and the theories behind what makes the Bimmer better, before plunking down a whole wad of cash.

I wouldn't ... not interested in the mechanics of cars ... just want to know is it comfortable? is it safe? is it reliable? does it have a decent stereo? .... and how much will it cost me?

When it comes to hi-fi - once again I'm not overly interested in comparing lots of brands before making a buying decision. I mostly just buy Naim after auditioning ... if the Naim product doesn't suit then I'd look to Rega/Linn/Chord ... if none of those suit then I'd probably give up on that product.

When it comes to the TV/Video/DVD ... then Panasonic seems to work OK.

Is a BMW better than a Volvo?
No idea ... but more likely to buy a BMW 'cos I know it drives OK and does what I need ... a Volvo may do this too, but never driven one: quite like the look of the one Simon Templar used to have.

Well then you are not a car person. If you are then you would want to know the difference between am M3 and a 318. And if you are a Naim person you need to know know why a 5 series is many times more than the Nait before buying one dont you?

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Notwithstanding the fact that I am still extremely biased towards black boxes with green logos on them. Same with cars, if you had the money you may buy a BMW Vs, say, a Volvo of similar spec. But you would still be very interested in reading the spec and the theories behind what makes the Bimmer better, before plunking down a whole wad of cash

Well, in 2004 I bought a Volvo S60D5 rather than the equivalent Mercedes, Saab, Audi, BMW etc I test drive. Could easily afford any of them - I liked the Volvo best, and SWMBO thought it was the "prettiest". But then I'm not really a car person.

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Originally posted by JYOW:

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:
[QUOTE]....

Well then you are not a car person. If you are then you would want to know the difference between am M3 and a 318. And if you are a Naim person you need to know know why a 5 series is many times more than the Nait before buying one dont you?

I'm not a car person ... M3 isn't that a motorway? - though to be honest I know very little about cars. Looked up the M3 and it is described as a performance car, whatever that means - not sure it'd suit me as I've never had any desire to wear a baseball cap the wrong way around while driving - does it have a DAB radio so I can get Radio 7 while driving and a place to put my slippers - essential IMHO? Didn't consider the M3 'cos it cost too much and couldn't see what it could do that a 318 couldn't - I know some folk like playing with cars and going to tracks, but I'd sooner cut cane for Castro than do either.

I haven't a clue why my CDX2 sounds better than CD5, but I know it does by a long way - I found this out by playing some music on it rather than reading about it. I'm sure the CDX2 has a better transport and DAC, but ... I let my ears choose.

The only time I read up the technology is when I'm not happy and wonder about ways to improve it - hence have read a bit about computer audio because every time I hear a computer feeding a system I'm totally underwhelmed. Yet an iMac as a front-end or better still an Amiga (some hope) would be highly desirable; so if I do work out how to make this work then I'll be delighted. The Chord BT interface is by far the best way I've found of getting music off a computer, but it is pain to set up - not heard the HiFace, but have hopes for it.

Of course there is nothing wrong with being interested in cars and the innards of Naim kit, but I don't think either is necessary to drive (an unfortunate necessity) and listen to music (one of the greatest things in life).

I'm not keen on bikes either as it seems a lot of effort to get from A to B and no music (still the curse of public transport is worse) ....

I think better is more subjective in cars. They aren'y relating to an artform and is a Bentley better than a Porsche? Can extreme perfomamce be appreciated on the street or is an undertired Miata more fun to throw around? One of the most fun cars i owned was a Pntiac Vibe gt that had some suspesion work and a very peaky motor that you had to work to keep on the cam. (Same as in the Lotus Elise) Wasn't the fastest and road pretty rough. Wife hated it.

quote:

Originally posted by js:
I think better is more subjective in cars. They aren'y relating to an artform and is a Bentley better than a Porsche? Can extreme perfomamce be appreciated on the street or is an undertired Miata more fun to throw around? One of the most fun cars i owned was a Pntiac Vibe gt that had some suspesion work and a very peaky motor that you had to work to keep on the cam. (Same as in the Lotus Elise) Wasn't the fastest and road pretty rough. Wife hated it.

It's all about sex and manhood to a certain degree and we'd be kidding ourselves if that isn't a factor. Anybody who is foolish enough to pay the kind of money we pay for our gears buy impulsively considering 99.9% of people out there will not notice nor care about the infinitesimal differences between top end Naim gear and a $300 Yamaha receiver. And if it is multi-channel, they'd probably prefer the Yamaha too.

Despite that, I don't think any of you and just walk into a Naim shop, close your eyes, listen and just say "that one"..... Without knowing some background, price, performance etc...

Even cosmetics sellers make up all kinds of BS reasons why their products made of kangaroo sperms are better than others.

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:
Didn't consider the M3 'cos it cost too much and couldn't see what it could do that a 318 couldn't - I know some folk like playing with cars and going to tracks, but I'd sooner cut cane for Castro than do either.

Exactly, a man on the street won't consider a 555 and couldn't see what it could do that a $50 DVD player from Walmart couldn't - and for those who like cars you can bet that they read the specs and understand why an M3 cost many times more than a 318

Same with hifi gears. I bet unless you are prince Alwaleed, you would at least know the theory of what a 555 is all about before going to have a listen and pay the wad of cash.

quote:

Originally posted by js:
I think better is more subjective in cars. They aren'y relating to an artform and is a Bentley better than a Porsche? Can extreme perfomamce be appreciated on the street or is an undertired Miata more fun to throw around? One of the most fun cars i owned was a Pntiac Vibe gt that had some suspesion work and a very peaky motor that you had to work to keep on the cam. (Same as in the Lotus Elise) Wasn't the fastest and road pretty rough. Wife hated it.

One of the funnest cars I have had was the MR2 Mark I. There just wasn't a car on the planet that could beat an MR2 considering I was in my teens. Again very subjective, but the MR2 at the time really held its own, better than the GTI that it replaced for me. And hugely better than the Acura 4-door piece of junk that we bought after having a baby.

Perhaps we should ask admin to rename the thread to Cars - can you hear a difference?

Stranger things can and do happen but I can't think of a scenario where a prospective M3 buyer would be interested in doing a mining exercise on the technical specification of a 318. They are more likely to have spent days or weeks test driving competition from other makes. Ditto someone walking into a dealer with the intention of buying a 555/500 and defaulting to a Nait if they didn't like it.

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Perhaps we should ask admin to rename the thread to Cars - can you hear a difference?

Yup. One of our local youngsters has had one of those awful boomy systems installed in his, to go with the gofaster stripes, totally unnecessary spoiler and huge exhaust pipe with apparently disable silencer.

Unfortunately for him, one of his neighbours (I know which one) will shortly be having a "word" with him (saves me the trouble), pointing out that roaring down narrow village streets when kiddies are about is NOT a good idea. I suspect that suggestions will also be made re. not driving around with his windows open (why do they do that - even in the depths of winter?) or "something may happen" to his pride and joy.

Why do youngsters (and some older people) equate loud one-note bass with "good sound"?

Do I hear anybody else thinking "pillock", "penis extension". 8-)

quote:

Originally posted by Dungassin:
Why do youngsters (and some older people) equate loud one-note bass with "good sound"?

'Cos getting decent bass extension out of a sealed box loudspeaker means big boxes. Peoples ears are tuned to some level of "one-notiness". I must admit that having a quick play with 555/552/500 into a pair of £6k B&Ws whilst at the dealer I picked up the nDAC from was an interesting experience. Yukkkkk - sounded to me like overblown one-note bass (due to the port) and treble like nails (think they had a metal dome tweeter). It sounded A LOT worse than my 13 year old CDS1 into my DBLs. Less is always more with bass IMHO - I stopped upgrading once I'd got something acceptable to me and that was when I put 135s onto the DBLs....

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Do I hear anybody else thinking "pillock", "penis extension". 8-)

I'd use other words but...

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It sounded A LOT worse than my 13 year old CDS1 into my DBLs.

Andy, nice post: you claim that £20k DBLs sound better than £6K B&W -- and get surprised?

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Originally posted by AMA:

quote:

It sounded A LOT worse than my 13 year old CDS1 into my DBLs.

Andy, nice post: you claim that £20k DBLs sound better than £6K B&W -- and get surprised?

But I've heard 555/552/250/SBLs and would be hard pressed to decide which was "better" - that or my DBL system (and moving from SBL->DBL was MASSIVE). I wonder if it was the fact I was listening to a sealed box loudspeaker