Sisters are doing it for themselves

Posted by: Jez Quigley on 26 March 2001

The price of the FRAIM is way beyond my means (SHAIM). Could the collective brain power/experience of the Naim forum come up with a do it yourself design?

The Flexye table is a start, but the exposed threaded steel rods and exposed nuts have a minus WAF (she never did like exposed nuts...). My initial thoughts/questions to get the thing rolling are:

1. The shelves should probably be MDF and probably 1" thick - easy to use, acoustically pretty dead, but how can it be made to look like real wood/furniture? Is there a paint/varnish etc that will do this? or perhaps affixing a real wood strip at the front.

2. How can we support the shelves? ie so that the thing isn't rickety, but still allows the required isolation for each shelf.

3. The rods. Is there a WAF solution?, or are there hollow wood sleeves, something else with a WAF available that could cover the rods, or a different idea altogether?.

4. The whole thing must be fairly easy to put together, cheap, and from easily available materials.

5. Since Naim didn't go with the name ANARAK I name the DIY project thus.

Posted on: 27 March 2001 by andrew mcmullins
There is a thread somewhere of someone who has created a thread about some 'stands' which have been hung from the ceiling. Try having a look at that thread.
Posted on: 27 March 2001 by Jez Quigley
Thx Andrew, but it has a WAF of about minus 10 million.
Posted on: 27 March 2001 by Tony L
quote:
The price of the FRAIM is way beyond my means (SHAIM). Could the collective brain power/experience of the Naim forum come up with a do it yourself design?

Vuk's stand design is allegedly half competent. Details here http://www.qstatistic.com/funandmusic.htm

By his own addmission it ain't in the Mana etc league, but it looks nice, is affordable and may be a good starting point assuming you have the skill / motivation to make it.

Tony.

Posted on: 27 March 2001 by John Channing
quote:
By his own addmission it ain't in the Mana etc league, but it looks nice, is affordable and may be a good starting point assuming you have the skill / motivation to make it.

The only problem is the cost. Vuk told me that the stand ended up costing him about £200 to build so unless it is particularly effective you would be better off picking up some second hand QS or Mana (there is stuff about, mainly previously owned by people now using Hutter wink.
John

Posted on: 27 March 2001 by Jez Quigley
It ranks with the ugliest thing I've ever seen!
Worse than mana. The brief was for the collective naimies to come up with something new with real WAFs, and that is easy and cheap to build. I've seen all the other stuff mentioned in the posts above.
Posted on: 27 March 2001 by andrew mcmullins
FYI.

There were a couple of Mana references which came up on Loot to-day ...

I have to say that having now seen some of these they may sound good but they look awful. Sorry fans.

Posted on: 27 March 2001 by Mick P
Chaps

I am one of those rare beasts who has kept the same wife for nearly 30 years.

This has come about because I recognise that it makes good financial sense not to get a divorce. Any divorced man will tell you that it is a very very very expensive exercise.

Right...we now come on the the Naim stands. Expensive yes but they do have a very high WAF
because they look so good, so just buy the bloody thing.

Buy a Mana or some other contraption by all means but if you do, expect to be nagged. If you get nagged about that and nagged about something else, up looms the financial hatchet of divorce and all of a sudden the Naim stand appears to be a bargin.

Keeping the wife happy must be priority number one. If you do not have a wife......ignore this advice.

Regards

Mick...drinking a cup of tea made by his adoring wife

Posted on: 27 March 2001 by andrew mcmullins
Thanks Mick for financial logic !

It all suddenly becomes more reasonable smile

Hope I can try that trick with the 135s !

Posted on: 27 March 2001 by Chris Metcalfe
I don't remember reading the prices of the Fraim - can someone oblige please?
Posted on: 27 March 2001 by Jez Quigley
If you have to ask.. you can't afford them

approx £500 for base, £300 for each shelf, so for me that means £2800 (x2 bases x6 shelves). Absolutely f* silly price.

So, anyone care to join in the project?

Posted on: 27 March 2001 by Mick P
Chaps

By Hifi rack standards the Naim price is bloody high. However if you look upon it as a piece of good quality furniture its ok.

You got to see it, to believe the quality. I am by nature, a stingy git, but I could be persuaded to part with my cash for these. They really are the business.

Regards

Mick

Posted on: 27 March 2001 by Jez Quigley
Don't do this to me!

I know they are the DB's and if they were a third of the price I would say what the hell and fill the last bit of slack on the plastic, but even though my mother used to say 'you walk about with holes in your shoes and spend how much on hi fi and records?' they are still way too expensive for me.

Posted on: 04 April 2001 by Chris Metcalfe
If they sound as good as Mick says they look, then obviously they're not too expensive. If the average Naim 'classic' box costs £2K UK (82, Supercap, CDX, XPS, etc), then an extra £300 for each box is about 15% more on price for potentially 100% improvement in sound.

And if you remove the cash already spent on e.g. Projekt racks, Base platforms, etc (ok that's what I've got) it doesn't seem so much.

But I think they look a bit, er, LOUD....

Talking of prices, isn't it that time of year again? Any news?

Posted on: 05 April 2001 by MarkEJ
The FRAIM, IMHO, is a milestone product for Naim Audio because it is the first time that they have produced something which is consciously complex. I think it had to be done this way because the relatively simple solutions had already been marketed. This must have been frustrating because Naim designs usually incline towards simple ideas which are superbly implemented (leaf springs, anyone?).

The FRAIMs may seem simple, but if you look closely, and observe exactly what is connected to what, at the same time taking into account the stresses imposed and the inherent characteristics of the materials used for each component, you end up with a very complex structure, which would be impossible to produce cheaply. You could maybe equal the performance, but it would look, er, different.

Someone must by now have compared the FRAIM with other stands using the same elctronics... wink

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

Posted on: 05 April 2001 by Willem van Gemert
quote:
If the average Naim 'classic' box costs £2K UK (82, Supercap, CDX, XPS, etc), then an extra £300 for each box is about 15% more on price for potentially 100% improvement in sound.

Don't forget the base (500 GBP)! For a decent system with three components you will need a base and three shelfs = 1400 GBP. More than the difference between a NAC 102 and a NAC 82! We will get new type of discussions: "I prefer a NAC 102 on a FRAIM instead of a NAC 82 on stand X".
With my system I would need six shelfs, which means probably two bases and six shelfs = 2800 GBP! I mentioned the prices to some fellow Naimophiles here in Luxusburg and they all considered them outrageous.
IMHO the FRAIM is, like the Flash, a missed chance for Naim. I'm sure Naim would sell loads of them if they were reasonably priced. Naim would make less profit per unit, but more profit in total because the numbers sold would be much higher. Example: I bought a nearly new Flash remote for 110 GBP. All Naim owners who visited me fell in love with it and were ready to buy one, until they heard the "new" price. If the Flash would cost say 140 GBP I'm sure every second Naimophile would buy one to replace the cheapish standard remote.

Ciao!

Willem

Posted on: 05 April 2001 by Willem van Gemert
Paul,

I had a look at the news section and judging from the pictures, a six tier would cost "only" 2000 GBP. You will only need five shelfs plus one base for six boxes, since the base is the bottom shelf.

Ciao!

Willem

Posted on: 05 April 2001 by Martin Payne
Paul,

this is a matter of semantics, but I would certainly consider the bottom level to be a 'tier' - after all, this is to be sold as a separate item?

cheers, Martin