Suggestion for Naim on demo of distributed clients

Posted by: JYOW on 26 October 2010

After a couple of years of waiting, and after a whole suite of clients and DAC, Naim has finally come up with a pure network client/DAC in the form of NDA, meanwhile like many others I have gone through numerous DACs and client and computer clients and have almost settled down in the form of a DAC plus Mac mini plus Amarra.

Having said that I am still very curious on the Naim alternative, especially the NDX which is Naim's version of the Transporter that we have been begging for.

But while I have full confidence on the comfort zone of the Naim sound, what I found with distributed clients is that the devil is in the user interface, which absolutely defines the ultimate user experience. A clunky client with 555 sonics would kill the whole experience.

Naim dealers are great in demonstrating to customers how to get good sound out of a Naim system, but when it comes to this new technology some of them are understandably like fishes out of water.

So to properly demonstrate the user experience I suggest either a flash video showing how the whole interface works. (iPhone, wireless remote, computer client, front panel or what naught), and/or mock up clients runnable on a computer to get acquainted with the interface. (e.g. Slim Devices used to have SoftSqueeze which is a 100% working computer client that emulates a Squeezebox.)

I think that would go a long way towards explaining what the Naim distributed experience is like.

The other thing that I am puzzled about is how the whole Naim client architecture work. Do each of those machines, (Qute, Uniti, HDX, NDX, Serve) share a common interface? Do they work together, and how? Being a “seasoned amateur” who has plowed through the quagmire of distributed audio, I have problem understanding the Naim architecture, I can only imagine someone new to this will be even more confused.
Posted on: 26 October 2010 by Aleg
Check out this post which refers to a video explaining the concept of Naim's networked audio.

It is really quite simple, IMO.

Two types of devices:

1. UPnP-servers (HDX, UnitiServe): stream UPnP over the network (max. 96kHz) and have local playback (max. 192kHz) to attached DAC or pre, and support ripping CDs to local or NAS storage;

2. UPnP-clients (Uniti, UnitiQute, NDX): receive UPnP streamed audio (max. 96kHz) and do a playback of that to attached pre- or directly attached speakers, and have other playback features (CD, iRadio, DAB, etc). They also have a DAC onboard that can take other digital devices on digital inputs. DAC can on a few of the clients be upgraded by adding an external Naim DAC.

Different devices differ in level of SQ and upgradability.

-
aleg
Posted on: 27 October 2010 by okli
I can understand the complains, because I have the same feeling that the dealers are not up-to-date with these new technologies, too. This on the other side could be explained with the complexity of the topic - they have to have knowledge now in areas like networking, software and hardware devices, different media formats, OS, etc. So, I think they need some help to become familiar with all this stuff...
Posted on: 27 October 2010 by Tog
Naim need to work on the UPnP control software and provide or adapt their own front end if they want to avoid the current mishmash of available alternatives none of which do their brand justice at all.

Tog
Posted on: 27 October 2010 by JYOW
There a a few possible alternatives, including adopting the Squeeze Center platform (if it is still open), or like what many mainstream receivers, support the Apple Airplay platform.
Posted on: 27 October 2010 by Aleg
quote:
Originally posted by Tog:
Naim need to work on the UPnP control software and provide or adapt their own front end if they want to avoid the current mishmash of available alternatives none of which do their brand justice at all.

Tog


Tog

I think you better complain at the producers of all those sh****y UPnP servers instead of Naim.

Naim is doing the only right thing they can do: produce a a range of UPnP products that is well adapted to each other and that they can control themselves.

That all the other producers are making a mess is beyond control of Naim.

I absolutely hate all this messy UPnP stuff just because it cannot interoperate properly, but since Naim has chosen to go this route, they have chosen the best solution; to produce all the components themselves. And if you can't get it to work with 3rd party products, well bad for you that's what you get with UPnP these days.

If you want to use a NAS with Naim just hook it up to their server products using SMB, which is the only reliable thing.

-
aleg
Posted on: 27 October 2010 by pcstockton
quote:
If you want to use a NAS with Naim just hook it up to their server products using SMB, which is the only reliable thing.


How is a NAS>Serve>DAC not reliable?? You dont even need a computer around I dont think. The only people in here bitching about UPNP Servers (if they dont have an HDX or Serve), are Mac OS users who dont seem to have any fantastic options (and never will given AirPlay). Both Foobar and JRMC are fine UPNP servers, and I am sure there are others. They run as UPNP servers natively, not by using a third party gateway expected to work with iTunes.

How could you not expect problems if you roll iTunes into a 3rd party DSP program (Amarra) into some Twonky or Eyeconnect whatnot....

-Patrick
Posted on: 27 October 2010 by David Dever
Naim Music Servers

Naim Network Players

These should give you a rough idea as to what's possible at the head and back ends of the system-not complete, but a starting point....
Posted on: 27 October 2010 by Aleg
quote:
Originally posted by pcstockton:
quote:
If you want to use a NAS with Naim just hook it up to their server products using SMB, which is the only reliable thing.


How is a NAS>Serve>DAC not reliable?? ....

-Patrick

Patrick

The connection NAS --> Serve is by means of SMB Cool

-
aleg
Posted on: 27 October 2010 by pcstockton
Aleg,

I dont know what you are talking about.... what is SMB?
Posted on: 27 October 2010 by Aleg
quote:
Originally posted by pcstockton:
Aleg,

I dont know what you are talking about....  what is SMB?


Patrick

SMB is the network protocol that the Serve and HDX use to connect to NAS. On Linux boxes implemented as SAMBA.

Lower level protocol than UPnP and much more robust.

 
quote:
Server Message Block

In computer networking, Server Message Block (SMB, also known as Common Internet File System, CIFS) operates as an application-layer network protocol[1] mainly used to provide shared access to files, printers, serial ports, and miscellaneous communications between nodes on a network.   
 
Posted on: 27 October 2010 by pcstockton
quote:
SMB is the network protocol that the Serve and HDX use to connect to NAS.

aha... so we were saying the same thing eh?
Posted on: 28 October 2010 by Aleg
quote:
Originally posted by pcstockton:
quote:
SMB is the network protocol that the Serve and HDX use to connect to NAS.

aha... so we were saying the same thing eh?

Yep