Fraim glass
Posted by: Martin Payne on 23 October 2003
I was talking to Mark Ragget of the Naim service dept today, after I re-installed my Fraim and ended up with a more bass-heavy sound.
He tells me that the glass on the Fraim has a "right way up".
If you tap the glass after setting up a level, the tone produced may be brighter or duller. I had noticed these differences, but never tried flipping the glass.
Under normal circumstances, the brighter side will give a better sound, apparently, although it was suggested that an over-bright sound may be tamed by installing the other way around.
Please note - this is not a joke.
cheers, Martin
E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com
He tells me that the glass on the Fraim has a "right way up".
If you tap the glass after setting up a level, the tone produced may be brighter or duller. I had noticed these differences, but never tried flipping the glass.
Under normal circumstances, the brighter side will give a better sound, apparently, although it was suggested that an over-bright sound may be tamed by installing the other way around.
Please note - this is not a joke.
cheers, Martin
E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com
Posted on: 31 October 2003 by Dev B
quote:
Originally posted by Martin Payne:quote:
Originally posted by Dev B:
Yoo need to change those 135's for 3xnew 250's, you know it makes sense!
Dev,
Paul Darwin was adamant that the 135 is better than the new 250.
Martin, what does Paul Darwin know!
Posted on: 31 October 2003 by Dev B
quote:
Originally posted by Jamie Dollan:
Quite a lot I would think. I can't really comment about 135s, but I much prefer my olive 250 to the new one. As 135s are superior to an olive 250, I guess I'd therefore prefer 135s to the new 250. Besides, monoblocks bring certain things to the party that no stereo amp can reproduce, so there's that to consider for a kick off.
Jamie
Jamie,
Apparently you are Marco & Stallion!
He he he
Posted on: 31 October 2003 by ken c
quote:
Originally posted by Dev B:
Yoo need to change those 135's for 3xnew 250's, you know it makes sense!
Dev
dev... interesting remark. i am currently reviewing various amplication upgrade options for my active system and 4x135's is a possibility. y're suggesting 2xnew250's may be better? this is definitely one of the configs that i will listen to one of these days.
enjoy
ken
Posted on: 31 October 2003 by dave simpson
quote:
Bolt holes scraped clean on (nearly) all the kit, to improve the earth bolt contact.
Alright...another potential tweak;-)
regards,
dave
Posted on: 01 November 2003 by Martin Payne
quote:
Originally posted by dave simpson:
Alright...another potential tweak;-)
Dave,
yup. If you're in a high-RF area like me, this is a grin-maker.
It cleaned up the sound enough to change the tonal balance.
However it also did something much more fundamental than that. You hear a lot about transients and leading edges, but perhaps the biggest improvement for me is how things stop so much better. The speakers just sound so much more in control than before.
Really, the whole timing of my system improved so much that I would almost characterise it as a qualitative change rather than a quantitative one.
This with a 14 year old 52 with original 52PS, and 135s of varying ages up to 18 years old, in a room that even makes my TV sound crap.
cheers, Martin
E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com
Posted on: 01 November 2003 by dave simpson
Interesting Martin,
Fortunately we don't have RFI problems here (if anything our recption sucks;-)Regardless, I think I'll give it a try...it can't hurt.
regards,
dave
Fortunately we don't have RFI problems here (if anything our recption sucks;-)Regardless, I think I'll give it a try...it can't hurt.
regards,
dave
Posted on: 01 November 2003 by graphoman
Reconsidering the matter, I’ve re-nmounted the supports (they were fixed too tight) and re-positioned the speakers... and yes, now the glass plates sound better with the brighter sides up. And the present state is better than the previous. Sorry for my report made all-too-early.
It’s not easy to tell the two kind of sides apart by knocking on them. However, changing all 5 glasses at once gave a lot of difference so I think I had the point. Of course, I drew a sign on the proper sides.
graphoman
It’s not easy to tell the two kind of sides apart by knocking on them. However, changing all 5 glasses at once gave a lot of difference so I think I had the point. Of course, I drew a sign on the proper sides.
graphoman
Posted on: 02 November 2003 by dave simpson
Martin,
Just thought I'd let you know I removed the paint from underneath the ground bolts. Unbelievable....it's as if someone's turbocharged my system! The improvement in blackness, timing and sheer power is amazing. If anyone reading this thread has older olive gear, I urge you to turn the boxes off, remove the allen-head ground bolts (the ones with serrated washers) on the bottom of the cases and scrape the casework's paint off under the bolt's washers. You've got nothing to lose except a warm-up cycle right? ;-)
thanks again Martin,
dave
Just thought I'd let you know I removed the paint from underneath the ground bolts. Unbelievable....it's as if someone's turbocharged my system! The improvement in blackness, timing and sheer power is amazing. If anyone reading this thread has older olive gear, I urge you to turn the boxes off, remove the allen-head ground bolts (the ones with serrated washers) on the bottom of the cases and scrape the casework's paint off under the bolt's washers. You've got nothing to lose except a warm-up cycle right? ;-)
thanks again Martin,
dave
Posted on: 03 November 2003 by Willy
Got my upgraded prefix back last week and took the opportunity to rebuild the fraim and bong the glass. All four sheets were the correct way up to begin with (Luck of the Irish). Interestingly the bong test was very clear on two sheets, barely noticeable on the other two.
Willy.
Willy.
Posted on: 03 November 2003 by Martin Payne
quote:
Originally posted by dave simpson:
Martin,
it's as if someone's turbocharged my system!
Dave,
yup, grin-making!
I have found the expressiveness of drums & percussion particularly improved.
FYI, the bolts need to be done up pretty tight, but the feet loose enough that the rubber is not distorted. Be careful not to let paint/scrapings drop into the hole, too, if you do it with the cover left on the equipment.
The biggest annoyance is that I can't do my 135's because it's not possible with chrome-bumper stuff.
cheers, Martin
E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com
Posted on: 03 November 2003 by ken c
quote:
Originally posted by dave simpson:
Martin,
Just thought I'd let you know I removed the paint from underneath the ground bolts. Unbelievable....it's as if someone's turbocharged my system! The improvement in blackness, timing and sheer power is amazing. If anyone reading this thread has older olive gear, I urge you to turn the boxes off, remove the allen-head ground bolts (the ones with serrated washers) on the bottom of the cases and scrape the casework's paint off under the bolt's washers. You've got nothing to lose except a warm-up cycle right? ;-)
thanks again Martin,
dave
wow, this sounds simple enough to try. i assume 250's and supercaps (and xps but not cdsii?) can be so tweaked? will report how i get on.
thanks guys. the tweak makes sense too...
enjoy
ken
Posted on: 03 November 2003 by dave simpson
Martin Posted:
Exactley the precautions I took....
Ken posted:
As Martin mentioned, chrome-bumpered pieces must not have the external case ground bolt. For example, my NAT 101 and its SNAPS didn't have them yet my 250, HC, 102, CDS (mk. 1) transport and CDSPS did. Ken, you are looking for one allen head bolt on the bottom of each box that's distinguished from the others by a serrrated washer under the bolt head (easily visible without removing any bolts). Simply remove the bolt and scrape the paint off the rim of the countersunk hole's rim with an X-Acto or similar razor knife and replace the bolt. FWIW, I found 2 bolts (on two cases of course) a bit loose as I removed them.
keep us posted Ken,
dave
quote:
FYI, the bolts need to be done up pretty tight, but the feet loose enough that the rubber is not distorted. Be careful not to let paint/scrapings drop into the hole, too, if you do it with the cover left on the equipment.
Exactley the precautions I took....
Ken posted:
quote:
wow, this sounds simple enough to try. i assume 250's and supercaps (and xps but not cdsii?) can be so tweaked? will report how i get on.
As Martin mentioned, chrome-bumpered pieces must not have the external case ground bolt. For example, my NAT 101 and its SNAPS didn't have them yet my 250, HC, 102, CDS (mk. 1) transport and CDSPS did. Ken, you are looking for one allen head bolt on the bottom of each box that's distinguished from the others by a serrrated washer under the bolt head (easily visible without removing any bolts). Simply remove the bolt and scrape the paint off the rim of the countersunk hole's rim with an X-Acto or similar razor knife and replace the bolt. FWIW, I found 2 bolts (on two cases of course) a bit loose as I removed them.
keep us posted Ken,
dave
Posted on: 04 November 2003 by Martin Payne
quote:
Originally posted by dave simpson:
FWIW, I found 2 bolts (on two cases of course) a bit loose as I removed them.
Dave,
there is a second bolt on full-width stuff that has a transformer inside.
The transformer is safely attached to the main chassis/tray, and this bolt then ensures a good mechanical connection between the tray and the sleeve. Mark Raggett told me to do these up tight, too.
cheers, Martin
E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com
Posted on: 04 November 2003 by ken c
dave, martin -- good stuff!
many thanks.
enjoy
ken
many thanks.
enjoy
ken
Posted on: 04 November 2003 by dave simpson
quote:
there is a second bolt on full-width stuff that has a transformer inside.
The transformer is safely attached to the main chassis/tray, and this bolt then ensures a good mechanical connection between the tray and the sleeve. Mark Raggett told me to do these up tight, too.
cheers, Martin
I must have understood (or remembered) an old forum post incorrectly...but it seems someone once mentioned not to tighten the tranny bolts as they were done up to a specific torque. Of course if Mark says have at it--tightened they will be!;-)
Did Mark mention the need to remove paint under the tranny bolts (as we've done with the grounding bolts)?
regards,
dave
[This message was edited by dave simpson on WEDNESDAY 05 November 2003 at 03:41.]
Posted on: 04 November 2003 by Martin Payne
Dave,
I suspect that the comments you refer to are the internal bolt which attaches the tranny to the chassis.
The external bolt attaches the chassis to the sleeve, but happens to be centered on the tranny.
cheers, Martin
E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com
I suspect that the comments you refer to are the internal bolt which attaches the tranny to the chassis.
The external bolt attaches the chassis to the sleeve, but happens to be centered on the tranny.
cheers, Martin
E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com
Posted on: 04 November 2003 by dave simpson
quote:
I suspect that the comments you refer to are the internal bolt which attaches the tranny to the chassis.
Makes sense....
quote:
The external bolt attaches the chassis to the sleeve, but happens to be centered on the tranny.
Got it...sounds like there's no paint to remove then.
thanks!
dave