FM antenna cable

I have an 01 and moved to an apartment in London and was unable to use my Ron Smith G17 that I used in scotland. I tried some indoor aerial solutions, but found I got the best results by constructing the circular bit only (with none of the elements) of the G17 and experimenting with postioning. It's ended up hidden behind my record storage. I use CT100 cable to connect it up to the NAT01. I told Ron Smith and he thought it was a good idea and would give better results than a whip aerial. Obviously the location/position of my flat helps but I get really good results. Better than the Magmum Dynalab solution. It also means when I eventually move to a house I have the G17 available for use.

regards

Dev

For grounding outdoor installations a coax grounding block should be employed which has two female F-connectors and a ground lead screw terminal. The coax cable will need cutting and two male connectors installed to allow connecting to the ground block. Alternatively you could purchase two terminated runs of same spec coax wire. A heavy gauge solid core copper wire should then connect from the ground lead screw terminal of the grounding block to a dedicated ground rod via a screw clamp on the exposed end of the rod.

The ST-2 instructions warn that although a grounded antenna will help prevent shock hazard etc. one should always disconnect the antenna at the tuner end whenever there is threat of lightening activity. Naim also advise this in their manuals.

Craig

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I got the best results by constructing the circular bit only (with none of the elements) of the G17 and experimenting with postioning.

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That's interesting news. I've got a G17 boxed up in my basement. It's not really necessary here in Toronto, but I was saving it for the future. In the mean time I wanted to install a better antenna than the wire that hangs off the back of the tuner. I'll have to open up that box and see what I can see. BTW, how did you mount it?

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Thanks for your detailed reply. Is the RG59/U 75ohm coax available from Radio Shack or a similar outlet?

Should the antenna be grounded if outside or is this not always necessary?

Paul

Radio Shack generally stocks terminated lengths of resonable quality 75 OHM coax. It may not actually say RG59/U on the insulation, but it will work fine.

Regarding the grounding issue, I would say that it should not be considered as optional (not sure if Radio Shack will have all of those bits though).

Craig

never did get to indulge in your generous offer re the ST2. Pleased to hear its working well.

Dev - did you ever get to try out the ST2? Great that you found a suitable solution for S-"Street" (hey - aliteration!).

Will be assisting in an FM antenna install in the near future to front one of those funky old MF tuners from late 80's.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

For baseband video signals, long runs of RG6U give a better picture than RG59U. It sould be the same for RF signals.
RG6U is available at RS here in Canada.

Emmanuel

Haven't tried the ST-2, but Terk makes and inside the attic antenna that I use on a second system and it works pretty good in the city.

Arthur Bye

CT100 and it's bigger brothers use a copper foil under the braid for better screening.

It's needed to reduce signal pickup on the cable to an absolute minimum, as this appears as a multipath signal otherwise, negating some of the benefits of a good antenna installation. On a long cable run, you'd be amazed at how much signal can be picked up on a long cable run.

It's for this reason that one should aim to get a much stronger signal than required from the antenna (excess gain), then use an attenuator at the tuner to reduce signal and prevent overload. The pickup on the cable (which will be constant for a given length at a given frequency) will be attenuated along with the signal, giving better results.

Cable pickup is less relevant if using an omnidirectional antenna though - a tuner will never give optimum performance with ANY omni, since one cannot minimise multipath reception. Practicality rears it's ugly head here though

The attenuator also benefits the performance of the receiver as it sees a better impedance match than the antenna alone could provide across such a wide bandwidth as the FM band, giving more consistent performance and an element of isolation.

Andy.

I'm using my NAT 01 with the signal I get from the cable and am very pleased with the result. I know it's overkill and that I'm nowhere near the potential I could get with an outdoor aerial, but unfortunately the antennas I tried at my place didn't work. I tried the Fanfare FM-2G and the MD Silver Ribbon. The only stations I could receive were some local Luxembourgish stations I rarely listen to. As I mostly listen to the German, French and Belgian radio I continue using the cable. I hope that if one day I'll move to my own house I'll get better results with an outdoor antenna.
What kind of tuner do you use actually? You could consider to first buy the antenna and see the difference the antenna makes compared to the cable signal with your actual tuner. Is there a way to try the NAT 02 or another Naim tuner at your place before buying? That way you can hear for yourself if the signal is good enough and if you think the NAT 02 is worth it's extra money, but you'll see it is!
When I bought my first Naim tuner (NAT 03) I didn't have a tuner and I wasn't sure if the price was worth it. I didn't regret it a second. Radio became my favorite source. So much, that the first thing I upgraded was the tuner, from NAT 03 to NAT 01. If Dutch radio is still as good as it was when I left Holland (6 years ago), the NAT 02 really is a must.

Ciao!

Willem

P.S. When I bought my NAT 03 my dealer wasn't able to advice me on a decent coax cable. I went to another shop who suggested me a MIT coax cable. It's expensive, but better than the standard cable my dealer gave me. Still I would be interested to try out another coax cable. Where can one find this Hirschmann "Koka 799" 75 Ohm coax cable in Holland?

I just purchased (very low cost) terminated RG59/U (100 feet) as recommended here and played around with the ST2 antenna position (still indoors) but now on the second floor. Radio reception on my favourite station has been poor lately (but possibly due to the weather - snow at higher levels). Placing the antenna higher produced a slightly better response but the signal is obviously still poor (this had not been the case until recently). I also tried the TV/FM cable outlet as the new cable now reached that outlet. This was out of curiosity. I now received twice as many stations but quality was somewhat poorer on some stations (its a tradeoff). However, I doubt that I would pick up some of these stations with any antenna as they are 150 miles away.

I did notice when fiddling about later that I had a nasty hum (noticeable only with the volume at maximum) on the input connected to my LP12/Linto/Lingo (here we go again). This however disappeared when the tuner was disconnected from the cable outlet. A ground loop perhaps?

Andrew, you would probably understand what's going on here with the hum. Could you explain? I tried to find your previous comments on grounding with the LP12/Lingo but couldn't.

Andrew (or anyone), where can one find/buy the superior low-loss CT100 cable?

To those of you who are concerned that the 02 or 01 tuners are not worth it unless you have an outdoor antenna - not true! I purchased my 02 nearly two years ago without a home trial (not possible) and with only an indoor antenna available. The 02 is now my most used source (on constantly) except when I use my LP12. Reception is variable but even with poor antenna conditions and sometimes poor reception, the 02 or 01 is worth it. My only regrets are not purchasing the 01 at the time and not being able to put up a really good antenna.

Paul

Hum is almost always present when cable is pluged on a HI-Fi / Home Theater system. This is due to poor grounding (of the cable shield) and the length of the cable.

Emmanuel

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Andrew (or anyone), where can one find/buy the superior low-loss CT100 cable?

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Most electrical wholesalers or antenna installers will carry it, beware extortionate prices though.

It's often cheaper to buy a reel from someone like Farnell.

In the UK the farnell p.no. is 150-836, and is 40ukp for a 100m reel. You can use leftover cable for HQ patch leads and ultimatly replacing other cables as you decorate etc.

www.farnell.com for more info - they accept credit card orders.

Andy.

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Originally posted by Richard van Laar:
I know, I know, the worst and a very non-audiophile reason to buy such an expensive component but I know myself by now. I will be irritated for as long as I have this system (dominantly sitting in my livingroom) by something that doesn't look good too and wasn't my first choice.

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Sounds like a very good reason to me. I know myself as well and I have difficulties to make compromises on some fields, my stereo is one of those fields. I'm sure you won't regret the purchase. The NAT 02 is more expensive than the NAT 03/05, but it really is in another league, soundwise and from the point of build quality/tuning. From my experience you don't need remote control nor presets. It's a real pleasure to tune with the NAT 01/02. The NAT 02 looks very cool and will complement your system perfectly. You'll be amazed about the sound (even with cable) and discover lots of (new) music through the radio. In the beginning the tuner saved me money as I was listening mainly to the radio, but since I got my CDS I started buying music I heard on the radio, so you're warned.

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Ha! I just had a look on the website from the Dutch Naim importer (http://www.phonologic.com) and under the Naim tuner section they actually advise Hirschmann (http://www.hirschmann.nl) cable & connectors! I didn't knew that. Have a look!

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Great! Next time I'm in Holland (probably around new year's eve), I'll go to RAF straight away. Since Phonologic is recommending it, it should be good. The MIT cable was an improvement over the standard coax cable I had with the NAT 03, but with the NAT 01 I'm not so sure. I'll give the Hirschmann cable a try.

Ciao!

Willem

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I'll have to open up that box and see what I can see. BTW, how did you mount it?

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Mike, it's really easy. Just make up the circular bit, and experient with positioning and then hide it somewhere - behind a sofa, cupboard, etc. Didn't realise you had bought a NAT01 - nice move. As it is such a good source it probably shows up your speakers to be really, really crap - something we've been telling you for ages. Dev