CDS2/XPS2 >> CDX2/XPS2 >> CDS2/XPS
Posted by: John Channing on 29 January 2003
According to Paul Messenger in this month' Hifi Choice. Looks like I might be getting an XPS2 then.
John
John
Posted on: 29 January 2003 by Dev B
John, What did he say?
Posted on: 29 January 2003 by John Channing
Dev,
Give me a call later for a chat, too busy to type right now.
John
Give me a call later for a chat, too busy to type right now.
John
Posted on: 29 January 2003 by Matt Gear
I was going to buy a copy of the magazine, but you don't seem to get many pages for your £3.50 these days.
The gist of the review, was that the CDX2/XPS2 sounded considerably better than the CDS2/XPS(1).
Removing the XPS2 proved "disappointing" in comparison with the newer two box player.
Using the CDS2 head unit with the new power supply proved a significant improvement over the CDX2 with the new power supply, so the conclusion was that a lot of work has gone into the new power supply, such that it can affect such a major improvement.
He finished up by saying that the CDS3 should be something very special, which I'm sure people here will agree with!
cheers
matt
The gist of the review, was that the CDX2/XPS2 sounded considerably better than the CDS2/XPS(1).
Removing the XPS2 proved "disappointing" in comparison with the newer two box player.
Using the CDS2 head unit with the new power supply proved a significant improvement over the CDX2 with the new power supply, so the conclusion was that a lot of work has gone into the new power supply, such that it can affect such a major improvement.
He finished up by saying that the CDS3 should be something very special, which I'm sure people here will agree with!
cheers
matt
Posted on: 29 January 2003 by Dev B
Cheers Mat.
Is the XPS2 a new design then, not a clean sheet of paper, but an evolution of the XPS1 and in what way is it different - new x-formers, earthing, case, feet, circuit design? It's probably all of the above!
Is the XPS2 a new design then, not a clean sheet of paper, but an evolution of the XPS1 and in what way is it different - new x-formers, earthing, case, feet, circuit design? It's probably all of the above!
Posted on: 29 January 2003 by Naheed
I thought it was mentioned in a previous thread that, the cds2 could not take full advantage of the xps2.
naheed. . .
naheed. . .
Posted on: 29 January 2003 by Richard Paget
At risk of controversy against the Messenger
Wasn't there a thread here recently posted by someone not that taken by a recent demo with new naim amplification versus his 135 system at home.
The CD player in that dealer demo was a CDX2/XPS2. Naim's response (Paul S. I thing) said that one of the problems the disenchanted Naimee may have was that the new dealer's system was a little unbalanced and wasn't up to the CDS2/xps standard of source the naimee was used to at home. He then went on to suggest a repeat audition with a CDS2/xps awaiting the CDS3 launch at the dealers may reverse those first impressions.
CDx2/xps2>>CDS2/xps are not Naim's thoughts anyway it seems.
Naim have always been honest in this way--a telephone enquiry some months ago confirmed cds1/ps is better than CDX/XPS. Advising me of the opposite, was more likely to get my money heading towards Salisbury. Also said 52/ps better than new 282--when I told them I was looking S/H 52 or new 282.
They are just not in my experience into a 'party line' for profit--life's too short.
Regards Richard
Wasn't there a thread here recently posted by someone not that taken by a recent demo with new naim amplification versus his 135 system at home.
The CD player in that dealer demo was a CDX2/XPS2. Naim's response (Paul S. I thing) said that one of the problems the disenchanted Naimee may have was that the new dealer's system was a little unbalanced and wasn't up to the CDS2/xps standard of source the naimee was used to at home. He then went on to suggest a repeat audition with a CDS2/xps awaiting the CDS3 launch at the dealers may reverse those first impressions.
CDx2/xps2>>CDS2/xps are not Naim's thoughts anyway it seems.
Naim have always been honest in this way--a telephone enquiry some months ago confirmed cds1/ps is better than CDX/XPS. Advising me of the opposite, was more likely to get my money heading towards Salisbury. Also said 52/ps better than new 282--when I told them I was looking S/H 52 or new 282.
They are just not in my experience into a 'party line' for profit--life's too short.
Regards Richard
Posted on: 29 January 2003 by Edot
The information I got from a dealer was that of all the new boxes, the xps2 was the least changed from it's predecessor. Maybe someone from headquarters can comment?
Posted on: 29 January 2003 by Richard Dane
Ed,
I think your dealer may have been referring to the Supercap?
The XPS2, quite apart from the new feet and casework which contribute to reducing microphony, uses a new toroidial transformer optimised for use as a power supply to our CDX/CDX2/CDS2/CDS3 players. Subjective tests seem to bear this out....
I think your dealer may have been referring to the Supercap?
The XPS2, quite apart from the new feet and casework which contribute to reducing microphony, uses a new toroidial transformer optimised for use as a power supply to our CDX/CDX2/CDS2/CDS3 players. Subjective tests seem to bear this out....
Posted on: 29 January 2003 by Richard Dane
Marco,
I haven't heard the final production-ready CDS3 yet. I guess I'll have to wait for the night before the Bristol show...
I'm sure that when the time comes for a demonstration you'll be able to try it with both a new XPS and an old one so you'll be able to form your own conclusions...
I haven't heard the final production-ready CDS3 yet. I guess I'll have to wait for the night before the Bristol show...
I'm sure that when the time comes for a demonstration you'll be able to try it with both a new XPS and an old one so you'll be able to form your own conclusions...
Posted on: 29 January 2003 by Richard Dane
Marco,
the CDS3 has a new transport, new 24 bit DACs, a new HDCD filter, new completely independant analog and digital boards and those are just the highlights of what's gone on inside...
the CDS3 has a new transport, new 24 bit DACs, a new HDCD filter, new completely independant analog and digital boards and those are just the highlights of what's gone on inside...
Posted on: 29 January 2003 by Edwin
Just wondering if the new XPS2 transformer is retrofittable to the XPS.
Posted on: 30 January 2003 by Edot
Richard,
Thanks for setting me straight. The xps2 is now on my wish list.
Thanks for setting me straight. The xps2 is now on my wish list.
Posted on: 30 January 2003 by Christopher
Richard,
Is it possible to fit the new feet to the old models... would this give any improvement?
Cheers
Is it possible to fit the new feet to the old models... would this give any improvement?
Cheers
Posted on: 31 January 2003 by Richard Dane
quote:
Originally posted by Christopher:
Richard,
Is it possible to fit the new feet to the old models... would this give any improvement?
Cheers
Christopher,
we will be looking into this once we start assessing the possibilities for the cosmetic upgrades for older equipment later in the year.
Posted on: 03 February 2003 by Steve Crouch
Well I've ordered an XPS2 for my CDS2 and will report back when it's installed and warmed up.
Steve
Steve
Posted on: 03 February 2003 by Dev B
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Crouch:
Well I've ordered an XPS2 for my CDS2 and will report back when it's installed and warmed up.
Steve
Let us know Steve as I think my XPS may be going up for sale too...
Posted on: 03 February 2003 by Colin Lorenson
Over the last 4 months I've had CDS2/XPS, CDS2/XPS2 and CDX2, each for about 3 or 4 days, to listen to. I can state quite categorically that the XPS2 is a substantial improvement, in every way, over the XPS.
I have the CDX2 at home right now and whilst I know that audio-memory can be unreliable I feel that it gives little away to the CDS2/XPS and as such is an absolute bargain. It falls down perhaps just a little in being a little relentless, less analogue than the CDS2/XPS but it doesn't seem to lack at all in detail and dynamics.
Makes you wonder how good the CDS3 is going to be.
Colin Lorenson
I have the CDX2 at home right now and whilst I know that audio-memory can be unreliable I feel that it gives little away to the CDS2/XPS and as such is an absolute bargain. It falls down perhaps just a little in being a little relentless, less analogue than the CDS2/XPS but it doesn't seem to lack at all in detail and dynamics.
Makes you wonder how good the CDS3 is going to be.
Colin Lorenson
Posted on: 18 February 2003 by Willito
Due to a fortunate turn of events (making half term work to your advantage) I was able to dem a CDX2/XPS2 this afternoon. (Rest of system was 282/+2HC, 200, B&W 603s, and Obelisks)
Yes, the XPS2 made a difference, but certainly not in the way suggested by HiFi Choice. Indeed, the dealer was rather surprised and downright apologetic. He suggested that the old XPS made a difference of "Wow!" proportions. While the XPS2 certainly refined the sounds, it was more of an occasional elocution lesson rather than a full Henry Higgins makeover.
The clear caveat in all this was that that the XPS2 was new and had received very little use. Yes, it had been plugged in for various weeks, but was only receiving its second dem. The dealer wasn't sure whether power supplies would need to "burn in" in addition to warming up. Any views?
In any case, though subtle, the impact made was welcome. I particularly noticed it in the decay of notes, or slight fluctuations in tone. Yes, it certainly added space, though not to the extent suggested by the review, nor the dealer's experience with the old XPS.
The Obelisks, it goes without saying, were just plain awesome. As has been pointed out before, however, they did benefit from about a ten minute warm up time and sounded a little muffled at first.
I am still very intrigued by the XPS2. The dealer helpfully suggested trying a home dem after it had a few more weeks burn-in. I shall report back in due course.
Yes, the XPS2 made a difference, but certainly not in the way suggested by HiFi Choice. Indeed, the dealer was rather surprised and downright apologetic. He suggested that the old XPS made a difference of "Wow!" proportions. While the XPS2 certainly refined the sounds, it was more of an occasional elocution lesson rather than a full Henry Higgins makeover.
The clear caveat in all this was that that the XPS2 was new and had received very little use. Yes, it had been plugged in for various weeks, but was only receiving its second dem. The dealer wasn't sure whether power supplies would need to "burn in" in addition to warming up. Any views?
In any case, though subtle, the impact made was welcome. I particularly noticed it in the decay of notes, or slight fluctuations in tone. Yes, it certainly added space, though not to the extent suggested by the review, nor the dealer's experience with the old XPS.
The Obelisks, it goes without saying, were just plain awesome. As has been pointed out before, however, they did benefit from about a ten minute warm up time and sounded a little muffled at first.
I am still very intrigued by the XPS2. The dealer helpfully suggested trying a home dem after it had a few more weeks burn-in. I shall report back in due course.
Posted on: 18 February 2003 by Ron Toolsie
The Good News: My XPS2 has arrived and is currently at my dealer awaiting installation.
The Bad News: This has coincided with the much lamented departure of (yet again) one of my DBL tweeters- a direct consequence of SRVs 'Tin Pan Alley' with the 52s volume pot set at 2-3:00.
The OK news My replacement tweeter pair should be at my dealers later on this week.
The Consolation Prize I will be in the Virgin Islands in a few days and unable to have the tweeters/XPS2 installed until the first week of March.
At that time I will have both the XPS1 and the XPS2 in house, much in the same way that I had both the CDSPS and the XPS1 to try with the CDS2.I will of course share my findings.
Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo
The Bad News: This has coincided with the much lamented departure of (yet again) one of my DBL tweeters- a direct consequence of SRVs 'Tin Pan Alley' with the 52s volume pot set at 2-3:00.
The OK news My replacement tweeter pair should be at my dealers later on this week.
The Consolation Prize I will be in the Virgin Islands in a few days and unable to have the tweeters/XPS2 installed until the first week of March.
At that time I will have both the XPS1 and the XPS2 in house, much in the same way that I had both the CDSPS and the XPS1 to try with the CDS2.I will of course share my findings.
Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo
Posted on: 20 February 2003 by Steve Crouch
Well I've now had the XPS2 since Friday and can honestly say that it is a very worthwhile upgrade. Deeper bass, more open and fluid with a more powerfull fuller sound whilst still retainng the toe tapping qualities of Naim.
The chap to whom I sold the XPS to came over to pick it up on Tuesday morning and was gobsmacked at the sound, although he hadn't heard active Naim before so perhaps not a true reflection of XPS2 feedback.
I would urge you to have a home dem. Straight from the box, stone cold, the XPS2 is night and day better than the XPS. I was very happy with the sound before the upgrade so didn't really need to do it but am very pleased that I did!
Steve
The chap to whom I sold the XPS to came over to pick it up on Tuesday morning and was gobsmacked at the sound, although he hadn't heard active Naim before so perhaps not a true reflection of XPS2 feedback.
I would urge you to have a home dem. Straight from the box, stone cold, the XPS2 is night and day better than the XPS. I was very happy with the sound before the upgrade so didn't really need to do it but am very pleased that I did!
Steve
Posted on: 20 February 2003 by NB
Tom,
I agree with you about how people's perception vary so much. I wonder whether this is down to what they actually hear or what they were expecting to hear.
I believe that comments like "as huge as night and day" only convince us that we are hearing more than we actually are. Very few people are prepared to admit that differences are "only slight",
regards
NB
I agree with you about how people's perception vary so much. I wonder whether this is down to what they actually hear or what they were expecting to hear.
I believe that comments like "as huge as night and day" only convince us that we are hearing more than we actually are. Very few people are prepared to admit that differences are "only slight",
regards
NB
Posted on: 20 February 2003 by Derek Wright
Diminishing returns - no - because just prior to an upgrade one is at ground zero - ie it is what you are used to - so the upgrade adds value to zero so it is significant.
If you are at entry kit level then listening to an upgrade in the high orders of the kit would appear to be a diminishing returns upgrade
Derek
If you are at entry kit level then listening to an upgrade in the high orders of the kit would appear to be a diminishing returns upgrade
Derek
Posted on: 20 February 2003 by John Channing
I would urge you to have a home dem. Straight from the box, stone cold, the XPS2 is night and day better than the XPS.
Now that I am in the happy position of having sold my XPS with an XPS2 on the way I can tell you about my experiences. A couple of weeks ago I had an XPS2 on home loan for the weekend. Like Steve, I found right from cold that it was a very significant upgrade from the old XPS. Musically it was a revelation and I regularly heard things on very familiar CDs that I had never heard before. Instruments and voices are significantly better separated, to the point that I could hear several voices singing in harmony on tracks that previously appeared to have just one amorphous vocal. The tonal pallette is also richer, the XPS sounds grey and grainy by comparison. The XPS2 also made me want to turn the music up louder. It also seems to me to have totally banished any digital hardness or nastiness. Not that I thought the CDS2/XPS combination had this until I heard it bettered, but the new combination has an analogue like relaxed character that make music very easy to listen to. You just don't have to concentrate as hard to follow anything in the mix and in this respect it reminded me of the Lingo upgrade (from Valhalla) on the LP12. It really is that good!
John
Now that I am in the happy position of having sold my XPS with an XPS2 on the way I can tell you about my experiences. A couple of weeks ago I had an XPS2 on home loan for the weekend. Like Steve, I found right from cold that it was a very significant upgrade from the old XPS. Musically it was a revelation and I regularly heard things on very familiar CDs that I had never heard before. Instruments and voices are significantly better separated, to the point that I could hear several voices singing in harmony on tracks that previously appeared to have just one amorphous vocal. The tonal pallette is also richer, the XPS sounds grey and grainy by comparison. The XPS2 also made me want to turn the music up louder. It also seems to me to have totally banished any digital hardness or nastiness. Not that I thought the CDS2/XPS combination had this until I heard it bettered, but the new combination has an analogue like relaxed character that make music very easy to listen to. You just don't have to concentrate as hard to follow anything in the mix and in this respect it reminded me of the Lingo upgrade (from Valhalla) on the LP12. It really is that good!
John
Posted on: 20 February 2003 by Derek Wright
Peter - it is also a reason why one should not upgrade too many things too quickly as you miss out the benefits of each upgrade. _ I did a mega upgrade at the end of 2001 and could not really tell what bit was doing what re burn in issues and improvements.
However I still get a plus score from the system ie it has not gone down to ground zero yet.
So I only lust after new kit at the moment for the sake of lusting rather than needing an upgrade fix, and also for my kit becoming "obsolete".
Derek
However I still get a plus score from the system ie it has not gone down to ground zero yet.
So I only lust after new kit at the moment for the sake of lusting rather than needing an upgrade fix, and also for my kit becoming "obsolete".
Derek
Posted on: 20 February 2003 by John Channing
it is also a reason why one should not upgrade too many things too quickly as you miss out the benefits of each upgrade
Totally agree Derek, if possible I'd like to buy something new every six months or so, that way you have the fun of rediscovering your old CDs over and over again.
John
Totally agree Derek, if possible I'd like to buy something new every six months or so, that way you have the fun of rediscovering your old CDs over and over again.
John