First Opera?

Posted by: Tam on 05 March 2006

I've been mulling this one over in my mind, ever since Fredrik's threads along the lines of 'first piano', 'first concertos' and so on.

Part of the reason that I didn't start the thread then was that I'm not entirely sure that Opera is something that you can get into via CD or vinyl, but rather something that has to be experienced live first. And hence the '?' in the title. That's not to say you have to have seen an opera to enjoy a CD, I love Britten's Peter Grimes and Janacek's From the House of the Dead, despite having seen neither live and I only recently saw Figaro for the first time. However, there is something about opera that cannot properly be conveyed on a CD (or even, arguably, on a DVD) and has to be experienced live and so I would venture to suggest that unless one has seen at least one 'good' opera production (the latter being almost as important, if not more so, than the work) then starting to build a CD collection of opera is likely to be something of a futile and unsatisfying endevour. More so, having seen a good production makes an opera on CD all the easier to enjoy (part of the reason I love Wagner's ring as much as I do is the superb Scottish Opera production I saw at the 2003 Edinburgh festival). That said, despite this, I thought I would at least try and start an all purpose opera thread and see where it went.

For anyone looking for an opera production to get started with I would recommend looking out for WNO if they come down your way (they brought two fantastic productions to Edinburgh last autumn - Verdi's Don Carlos and Rossini's Barber of Serville - and others that I didn't see); I saw an excellent Opera North Don Giovanni last year. For those in London, I'd urge a note of caution with regard to ENO whose recent productions (with the exception of their recent Billy Budd, of which I've heard good things, and the forthcoming Mackerras Makropolos Case) have been somewhere between patch and poor, and the loss of Paul Daniel as music director was extraordinarily careless. If Glyndebourne on Tour is coming your way (though it's possible they've finished already) Mozart's Figaro is very enjoyable, Tangier Tattoo should be avoided like the plague and La Cenerentola is rather poor.

I'll stick just one caveat on - I'd like to steer clear of Wagner here (despite having already mentioned it, partly because we have a pretty good Ring thread already and partly because I'm not sure he's the easiest place to start in opera - they again, the anvils in Rheingold really hooked me in so.....).

So, where to start on CD. Well, I'm going to start with Britten. Partly because he's in English, which helps (and negates something of a need to follow along with a libretto). That said, musically, he isn't necessarily the easiest composer to get into, so I'm not going to go for any of the well known works such as Peter Grimes or Billy Budd, but instead for (I think) his earliest opera: Paul Bunyan. I think it may have been have been the first opera I ever heard on CD, my brother loved it and used to play it a lot. I think it has some of Britten's finest and most lyrical music. It also gains wonderfully from having one of the finest librettos of any opera ever. Too often the libretto is, frankly, second to the music; in this case, with Auden doing the words, there's no chance of that. To make it a stronger recommendation, it's an opera that actually works far better on CD than in the theatre (perhaps one of the reasons it flopped back when it premiered in America in the late 30s); the reason for this is wrapped up in the subject. The opera is the story of Bunyan, a mythic American figure of a giant lumberjack who clears the forests of the west (which is where the staging problems start to come in). Interestingly it really is something an ensemble piece with little approaching a lead role, instead virtually each character simply gets their own 'aria'. Having said all that, it is possible to argue that this is almost as much a musical or an operetta as it is a full opera. This impression is reinforced by the fact that the scenes are linked together by the songs of a folk/balladeer/storyteller. But, to be honest, I couldn't care less what label gets stuck on it and we're simply fortunate that Britten decided to dust it off in the last years of his life and revise it for publication. There exist two recordings. One is from Hickox's Chandos survey of the Britten operas taken from a Royal Opera House production. Sadly it suffers in two key respects. The first is the singers are very obviously not American, in particularly the balladeer, and it somehow just doesn't feel quite right. The second, and more serious problem is that given Bunyan is a voice from off-stage and he sounds rather too much like he's shouting, or, at the very least, the voice is strained. Fortunately, Brunelle's Plymouth Music Series recording has made a welcome reappearance at budget price on EMI. The fact that it's done in America (yes, that Plymouth Winker) lends it a certain rightness. Because it's a studio recording, Bunyan's voice sounds right without any hint of strain. The only drawback is that the set doesn't contain a libretto (not that you really need it, just that I'd like one).

Probably counting even less as a opera than that, is Bernstein's Candide, but it's very fine none the less and the composer's own account on DG is very good.

Beethoven's Fidelio is a fantastic piece of composition (as it should be, given the time he spent on it). I have two recordings. One, Rattle/BPO should be avoided absolutely - it is very bad indeed, as, I think, is all Rattle's Beethoven. The other is the very fine Mackerras/SCO account on Telarc (done after an Edinburgh festival concert). I'm told very fine things about both Klemperer's readings, but haven't heard either in full. One is on EMI, but the one I shall probably end up getting is the live ROH version on Testament (since it also features the wonderful Hans Hotter).

I'm wary of suggesting it as a starting point, but then I recall that it was probably the first 'good' opera that I'd seen. It was a rather fine Glydebourne production of Janacek's Makropulos Case. That said, while I would not be against suggesting Janacek for someone starting out, I do not think that Makropulos is the best place to start. But as long as you go for (yes, you guessed it, Mackerras, you can't go far wrong). I'd probably start with Osud, it has a wonderful score, and the WNO recording on Chandos is in English to boot, and filling just one disc it's nice and cheap (for opera). Mackerras has also recently done Jenufa in English, but this recording is not as good as the earlier Czech recording with the VPO. Indeed the entire VPO cycle is available at knockdown price (though without librettos) and, of the individual operas, probably From the House of the Dead and The Cunning Vixen are among the finest (the latter also available in English under Rattle - though I haven't heard that).

There are a number of good Mozart operas, but since I've just discussed the three I would recommend in my Mozart thread, I will not do so again here, however they are the Gui or Giulini Figaros and the Giulini Don Giovani (all on EMI) and the Mackerras/LPO magic flute (which has the added bonus of being in English).

Smetana's Bartered Bride is also very fine and Charles Mackerras has just done it in English in a fantastic new recording on Chandos.

I'm not sure it counts as opera, but I'm going to mention it anyway: Gilbert and Sullivan. Not least because it gives me another excellent excuse, as if I need one, to mention Mackerras whose wonderful series of recordings with WNO on Telarc are some of the best going (and include Pinafore, Pirates, the Mikado, Trial by Jury and Yeoman of the Guard). The minimal dialogue, more of a blessing than a flaw, fits all but Yeoman onto one disc and, for my money, you will not find a finer conductor of G&S than Mackerras.

Lastly I shall turn to Verdi and, in particular, to the wonderful Don Carlos. Now, this a tricky work since he revised the score so many times, a 'definitive' edition is something of an oxymoron. Most of the available recordings are in Italian rather than the original French. To make matters worse, it suffers from the problem summed up as follows (and I'm afraid I'm not sure whom I'm quoting here, so if anyone knows...): "..all you need are the six best singers in the world!". I have enjoyed very much the Giulini/Domingo Royal Opera recording. Anyone wanting further detail about the French recordings, etc., should look up my Don Carlos thread.

Anyway, I've gone on for more than long enough, anyone else got any opera recommendations?

regards, Tam
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by Jay Coleman
Tosca.
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by Wolf
I was just out of college back in the mid 70s and a friend invited me up to his apartment to see Zefferelli's Carmen on public television. I thought it was great., About 8 years later I had a friend invite me to see Peter Grimes and I somewhat enjoyed that, loved the sea interludes tho. I went to see several more before I moved away. Now in LA I"m a regular season ticket holder. Not all are great but it sure is worth it when they are. I'd take someone new to see an Italian opera first before the German or Russian ones. excepting of course Mozart in some cases.

I hate to say I'll probably never get to see Death of Klinghofer even tho it was commissioned in part by the LA opera. It's just too politically charged. I love it on CD tho... Heard that they did it and Edinborough (sp?) this year, that is great news.

I think it does help to see the production first, unless it's a bad one.

glenn
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by erik scothron
Tam,

I would not recommend Brittan, janucek or wagner as a first Opera experiences. I too love Grimes, makropulus etc. (both at Glyndebourne - golly how I miss the days when I got free tickets)but I've taken girlfriends to both and let's just say I didn't get laid on either night. Frown One of them is still not talking to me.

I'm going to go the 'classic fm blue rinse brigade' route again and suggest La Boheme - not one but three show stopping lyrical arias in the first act alone. I took a 'Take That'fan (she's blonde and in PR Roll Eyes )to La Boheme (RHO) and she loved it. After that performance she took me home and ..(censored)

Pearl Fishers - two excellent arias at least - took a musical luddite to that and she loved it although she said the singers outght to get 'miked up' Roll Eyes

Any Mozart/da ponti opera - Figaro is probably the most accesible in my view. No way you can go wrong there, so if she's playing hard to get....

Tosca - for passion

Aida - for spectacle

Madam Butterfly - if she is frigid this will start the thaw and warm her up nicely

Yes, Fidelio (what a pity Beethoven only wrote one opera)

G&S is a good start especially Mikado which is funny, colourful and has one beautiful aria.

Personally I don't like Italian opera sung in english (fiendishly difficult to translate and retain the right note/vowell match)they just don't sound right so give me the sur-titles anyday. It's probably this reason I've never been to ENO.

ETO - English Touring Opera get around abit and do excellent perfomances with limited production values.

GTO - Got to be the best - excellent perfomances with high production values.

Thats all for now

Erik - batting for the (fellow)low brows
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by erik scothron
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wolf:
I'd take someone new to see an Italian opera first before the German or Russian ones. excepting of course Mozart in some cases.

Hi Wolf,

I saw Eugine Onegin and queen of Spades - both Russian at Glyndebourne (in the old building eons ago)and both were stunning but I'm sure you are right Italian first, french second, then russian/german/english a tied third?

Erik
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by erik scothron
quote:
Originally posted by Tam:

Lastly I shall turn to Verdi and, in particular, to the wonderful Don Carlos.


I saw Macbeth (ETO)and was impressed. I would not buy it to listen to but I would definately watch it again live if I could. High drama indeed. The lead role was a south african whose name escapes me - a doctor by profession who only dabbles in opera but he had one of the best voices I've ever heard, looked like a Greek God and had great presence, my girlgriend fell for him big time Roll Eyes
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by Huwge
My first opera at the age of about 13 was "Die Entfuhrung aus dem Serail" by Mozart, followed swiftly by Puccini's "Bohème" and Verdi's "Traviata." I think I was quite lucky as these are all reasonably good first toe's in the water.

I would also consider the respective versions of Figaro by Rossini and Mozart as being a safe bet. Most Puccini is acceptable and some Verdi, although Macbeth and Don Carlos are probably not good starting places. People who have limited experience of "classical" music tend to be daunted by Wagner, but I see nothing wrong with the Dutchman as a starter opera - even if there are precious few pairings capable of rendering the music credibly, you either get a good Dutchman or Senta but rarely both together.

I would advise against Berg's "Lulu" and Shostakovich's "Lady Macbeth of Mtensk" as these are quite hard pills to swallow, even if I like them very much. But it took time.
Posted on: 06 March 2006 by Earwicker
I think Fidelio was the first opera I ever really absorbed and "got into". In those days I was heavily into Beethoven (well, no change there then!) and my command of German remains vastly superior to my Italian; Fidelio it was.

Since then, Fidelio has probably been supplanted as my favourite opera by Parsifal, although for people who are new to the genre, I'd possibly recommend starting with Cosi fan tutti (which is charming, musical and very funny), Fidelio of course (who can resist the mir ist so wunderbar quartet?!) and then maybe Tristan (enough said!) and Die Meistersinger - an opera so immediately loveable it's hard to believe it was written by Wagner!

Best wishes, chaps,

EW
Posted on: 06 March 2006 by Tam
Erik,

In general I would agree about Britten (and much as I love Grimes, would not suggest people start with it). Bunyan, however, isn't really at all like most Britten opera - if you don't know it, I thoroughly recommend it. As I said, I also agree Re Wagner. Janacek may well fall into the same category, though Osud is pretty approachable and, as I say, it managed to hook me in!

As to Lady Macbeth - I find it very fine too, though I'm not sure I would want to own it. I saw a wonderful concert performance at the Edinburgh festival a few years back with Violetta Urmana in the title role, and Mackerras/SCO - it was a thoroughly enjoyable evening. She's a superb singer (and also stole the show in last summer's Verdi requiem).

regards, Tam
Posted on: 06 March 2006 by Tam
Glenn,

They did indeed do it at Edinburgh last summer (we spell it that way just to confuse you guys Winker). It was wonderful. If you search for my 'EIF 2005' thread then there's a review buried somewhere in there. I have the Nagano CD, but something is gained from seeing it. I find that Adams can sometimes be a little repetitive in his music, but here it has a wonderfully hypnotic and claustrophobic quality that suits the subject very well indeed. I believe there is a DVD available and also a film version, so you might be able to track those down....

I'm also quite keen to see Doctor Atomic (his new opera about Oppenheimer), which premiered in San Francisco recently (or is about to) - I hope it makes it out here soon.

regards, Tam
Posted on: 06 March 2006 by erik scothron
quote:
Originally posted by Tam:
Erik,

In general I would agree about Britten (and much as I love Grimes, would not suggest people start with it). Bunyan, however, isn't really at all like most Britten opera - if you don't know it, I thoroughly recommend it. As I said, I also agree Re Wagner. Janacek may well fall into the same category, though Osud is pretty approachable and, as I say, it managed to hook me in!

As to Lady Macbeth - I find it very fine too, though I'm not sure I would want to own it. I saw a wonderful concert performance at the Edinburgh festival a few years back with Violetta Urmana in the title role, and Mackerras/SCO - it was a thoroughly enjoyable evening. She's a superb singer (and also stole the show in last summer's Verdi requiem).

regards, Tam


Tam,

I know nothing of 'Bunyan' - I will google it and see if it takes my fancy. Many thanks.

Erik
Posted on: 06 March 2006 by erik scothron
quote:
Originally posted by Huwge:
My first opera at the age of about 13 was "Die Entfuhrung aus dem Serail" by Mozart, followed swiftly by Puccini's "Bohème" and Verdi's "Traviata." I think I was quite lucky as these are all reasonably good first toe's in the water.


Huwge,

How fortunate you were to be exposed to live opera at such an early age. It is rare to see children at opera in the UK. I went to the Rossini Opera Festival in Pesaro, Italy a few years back and I was surprised to see whole families there, children everywhere and all engrossed. Personally I find it hardly surprising that children who grow up on a steady diet of Orc music grow up the way they do. Of course price is a problem but despite having paid £130 for a seat at ROH I know there were seats at £20 and even less for students and Glyndebourne too has some very cheap seats - provincial theatres are cheap as are touring operas. It's a shame how so many people in the UK think opera is not for them and never give it a chance based on wholly erroneous assumptions such as 'it's only for snobs' ticket price or language barrier.

Erik
Posted on: 06 March 2006 by Huwge
Erik,

Given the almost incessant barrage of classical music at home, it's a major wonder that I managed to plough other furrows. I am not sure whether there is still anything similar today, but my own understanding of classical music was further enhanced by frequent visits to Arthur Davison's Family Concerts at the Fairfield Hall in Croydon (early-mid '70s).

The opera visits were initially supported by my school, as an extra curricular offering. Then, with my parents. It was a real pleasure, the first time that I could treat them.

My constant regret is the cost, but then I look at the cost of a pair of tickets to see the Rolling Stones and wonder which gives the greater pleasure.

I haven't been to Glyndebourne for an age, probably should think about doing something about that.

Best,
Huw
Posted on: 06 March 2006 by nicnaim
Mellow mood tonight. Currently

Miles Davis - In a silent way

Previous, Chris Botti - A thousand kisses deep, and Kate Bush - Aerial

Time for bed said Zebedee

Nic
Posted on: 06 March 2006 by nicnaim
Sorry wrong thread. Definitely time for bed.

Nic
Posted on: 06 March 2006 by Todd A
quote:
Originally posted by Tam:
Part of the reason that I didn't start the thread then was that I'm not entirely sure that Opera is something that you can get into via CD or vinyl, but rather something that has to be experienced live first.



For me it required only a CD. Christoph von Dohnanyi's recording of Wozzeck blew me away and I have been an avid opera fan since. (Though I don't like everything I've heard.)
Posted on: 07 March 2006 by Wolf
Todd, you are really hard core, tho know a lot about music. Wozzeck for your first opera? Wow. I like lots of 20th C stuff and a friend that I used to go to music events with thought I had strange taste for a beginner, not that that was bad. After I'd heard a few Verdi and Puccini things, loved Otello I could go back to Peter Grimes and really enjoyed it second time around. And even get into Wagner, tho the first time I was really restless in Tristan 4.5 hours long. I do want to hear Wozzeck with someone that really knows and likes the work.

I'd seen a TV documentary years ago on Glass' Einstein on the Beach and had a good laugh and him and Wilson talking about that production premier in '76, boy are they out in the stratosphere. Interesting work even tho I'd find it hard to see the whole thing. I did get a CD of Songs from his Trilogy:E. Beach, Satyagraha and Akhnaten which I quite like. The counting and news casts for arias on E.Beach can be totally irritating or a strange exercise in meditation. In a couple weeks I'm going to the LA Phil which is celebrating 2 weeks of minimalism and one night Adams is conducting part of Akhnaten and his own Harmonileir SP?. I hope they do the one opening piece of Akhnaten with the drumming, it's quite exciting, wish there was more of it in the whole CD to break up the sections.

I talked to one friend that was at the Houston premier of Akhnaten and said it was a austere set with shafts of light as the only props and figures would come out and stood straight and sang the arias, NO interaction, but true to Egyptian art. He said it was really funny to see the opera crowd getting restless whispering and wondering when they were going to get some action, they never did. Many bailed out at the intermission. The music can be really sublime. Tho I know there are not many who like minimalism, I quite enjoy it at times, tho don't want a whole diet of it.

Tam, I too want to see Dr. Atomic (wish I'd gotten tickets online and ran up to SF for the Premier) and wonder who will do the first CD production of it? I know it goes to New York next year so I will be able to hear it on a Met broadcast. Thanks for letting me know it's spelled Edinburgh. I keep saying Firenze to Italians and they come back with Florence, what's that about?
Cheers
glenn
Posted on: 07 March 2006 by --duncan--
...
Posted on: 07 March 2006 by --duncan--
quote:
Originally posted by erik scothron:
After that performance she took me home and ..(censored)


Excellent criteria for judging an Opera!

quote:
Madam Butterfly - if she is frigid this will start the thaw and warm her up nicely


Though possibly not if she's Japanese.

quote:
Personally I don't like Italian opera sung in english (fiendishly difficult to translate and retain the right note/vowell match)they just don't sound right so give me the sur-titles anyday. It's probably this reason I've never been to ENO.


On the whole I agree, but ENO sometimes triumph despite this. Their 'Barber..' is far more enjoyable than the latest ROH offering. I've exchanged the hurley-burley of the chaise longe these days but I once took an absolute Opera beginner to it, she loved it and...

ENO also has far less snob-factor (dress-code is 75% M&S, 25% S&M)

Finally, it certainly need not cost the earth. We got our tickets to the all-star ROH Tosca this morning. We'll just behind the £130 crowd, having paid £11.

duncan
Posted on: 07 March 2006 by erik scothron
(dress-code is 75% M&S, 25% S&M)

We'll just behind the £130 crowd, having paid £11.

duncan[/QUOTE]

Wowie - good news - Im there already, it's not the money it's the S&M Cool
Posted on: 07 March 2006 by Tam
quote:
Originally posted by Wolf:
Tam, I too want to see Dr. Atomic (wish I'd gotten tickets online and ran up to SF for the Premier) and wonder who will do the first CD production of it? I know it goes to New York next year so I will be able to hear it on a Met broadcast.


I really hope Runnicles records it - he's a stalwart of the Edinburgh festival and I've seen him give some wonderful concerts.

regards, Tam
Posted on: 07 March 2006 by Tam
quote:
Originally posted by djc:
On the whole I agree, but ENO sometimes triumph despite this. Their 'Barber..' is far more enjoyable than the latest ROH offering. I've exchanged the hurley-burley of the chaise longe these days but I once took an absolute Opera beginner to it, she loved it and...


I think opera in English (when not the original language) is very dependent on both the quality of translation and of the performers. As, I think I said in my first post, I saw a very good Don Giovanni with opera north last year. The recent Mackerras Magic Flute on Chandos is also very good (though, of course, that's not originally Italian). I think, at ENO, the diction of the singers is so poor, in general, that when you get to likes of Italian opera, I can easily imagine them being somewhat at sea. Still, I'm going to the forthcoming Mackerras/ Macropolus Case and will be interested to see how they perform (though Czech opera does tend to work fairly well in English).

regards, Tam