Entry-level Projector?

Posted by: Mark R on 25 June 2007

A recent move of the hifi and AV has started thoughts of the possible use of a projector in the new room. This is certainly new territory for me and recent research has resulted in the usual laundry list of features and specs to make decisions on.

Some background: we currently sit in the SD camp, and use DVD5/AV2, with the RGB1 component cable into a Panasonic 42PWD6UY (EDTV - 480). We have no TV/Cable/Satellite/Games consoles to consider, but do have occasional use of computer-based content (resolution not determined). We're very pleased with the current setup.

Current budget is ~$1k and I'm currently leaning towards a 480p projector (Shock! Horror!). However, there seem to be fewer of these models available, with newer models seeming to be 720p (and upwards). I'm not entirely sure I want to put scaling into the equation just yet ...

So, I have a couple of questions that I'm hoping more seasoned AV veterans would be able to provide some guidance on:

- LCD or DLP? I've seen many forum responses from a couple of years ago that still put DLP ahead of LCD. Is this still the case or is the gap now closed?

- Recommended brands for entry level? I've seen a lof of InFocus references here, and they generally seem to get good press. What about Optoma? Panasonic? Any to avoid?

- Is it possible to get an entry level projector that has RGBHV BNC component inputs? I've really enjoyed the picture of the DVD5 with the RGB1 and would prefer not to lose that quality. DVI/HDMI is an option, but based on my experiences with my current screen, I still prefer the component interface.

Note: demos of models is tricky, with few to no providers in the local area carrying cross-brand stock nor able to provide home demos.

Many thanks in advance.
Mark.
Posted on: 25 June 2007 by David Dever
– How big a projector can you fit? Thermal requirements?

– On what room boundary will the projector end up (ceiling / coffee table / rear wall)?

– How dark is/will be the room during normal viewing conditions?
Posted on: 25 June 2007 by Allan Probin
Mark,

Have you given any thought to what size screen you will be projecting onto? If you're thinking of a 480 line projector then you don't want to be sitting any closer than about 2 screen widths away from the screen (maybe even 2.2) or you'll be able to see pixels. On the other hand, with a 1080p projector you could probably have a screen large enough that your viewing distance was only about 1.3 screen widths away. Maybe start off by thinking how far away from the screen you will be sat and then work out the screen size from there based on the resolution of the projector. For 720p, by the way, I would base the screen size on a viewing distance of about 1.7 screen widths.

The screen size will also determine how bright (or not) your projector will need to be. A larger screen is going to require a bright projector to get an adequate level of illumination. A small screen is going to require a less bright projector to prevent the level of illumination being too high.

As well as this screen size / viewing distance equation to think about, have you also thought about where you might mount the projector? Is it going to be on a shelf on the back wall, in which case you'll need a projector with a long throw, or some point on the ceiling, i.e short to medium throw. How flexible can you be with where the projector is going to go?

Answers to these sorts of questions may well eliminate a few models that would be unsuitable for your environment or start to change your mind about resolution.

Allan

Hey Dave, you must have posted that when I was putting my post together!
Posted on: 25 June 2007 by Mark R
Dave, Allan,

Many thanks for the insightful prompts.

The room is 11'W x 14.5'L x 8'H (3.35m x 4.42m x 2.44m). The screen will be on the shorter 11' width, seating position at the other end with a viewing distance of ~11'. We have a shelf on the rear wall ~2' (0.6m) from the ceiling, 13" (0.33m) deep and I intend to locate the projector at the mid-point on this shelf. Straight line distance from shelf to opposite wall is ~13.5'.

From these measurements, I think I have latitude for 480p and possible avoidance of pixelation, although I'm not entirely sure of the screen calculator approach to distance of projector to resolution to screen size, etc.

The room gets pretty dark at night (typical time for viewing) and there's ambient light during the day, when it can be reasonably bright, but no direct sunlight into the room. We have light curtains that we intend to change to darker if needed.

Dave - is the thermal consideration based on location of projector and boundary proximity?

Thanks again,
Mark
Posted on: 25 June 2007 by David Dever
Rough geometry: a 103"-wide 16x9 screen will, at 852 x 480 resolution, yield 0.1" square pixels, or, 10 pixels per inch.

Increasing the projector's resolution to 1280 x 720 increases the density at the screen to 15 pixels per inch, 125% more pixels per unit volume. (Remember, over-the-air HDTV sources at 720p can be quite scintillating!)

The obvious "thermal" consideration is directly related to acoustic considerations, i.e., the noise from the cooling fan. (In my room at home, for example, an Optoma 720p projector 3.5' behind the viewing position was still too loud during normal operation.)
Posted on: 25 June 2007 by Mark R
Dave,

Thanks very much. I want to keep fan noise to a minimum - the room will be quite intimate with the single door closed, and I'd imagine that a loud fan will be quite intrusive. We did away with DirecTV over two years ago now and I'm a bit reluctant to venture into OTA just because it's there - I'd need to revisit the content for this area to see if there's anything of interest.

With 720p we introduce scaling, from a DVD perspective, and my viewing experiences with semi-HD plasmas/LCDs have quite happily kept me at EDTV. Is scaling technology in current projectors better than in older plasmas, to the extent it's not noticeable? I was hoping to avoid external vs. internal scaler considerations at present.

Thanks,
Mark
Posted on: 28 June 2007 by Allan Probin
Mark,

Based on those dimensions and with a 480p projector, I'd stick to a screen of about 5ft in width. The projector itself will need a throw ratio of > 2:1 i.e the ratio of projection distance to screen width, which would be classed as long throw.

Another thing to look out for is 'offset' - i.e. how far will the projector be above or below the screen, or the centre of the screen. I havn't looked at the projector market for a while but I suspect that any 480p projector you find these days will be based on the chassis of a data/presentation unit, the sort you'd normally find in a meeting room. Unfortunately, these types of projector tend to have quite a large fixed offet (not variable) and really designed for placing (horizontally) on a desk and the optics throws the bottom of the image a fair bit above the projector, or upside down on a ceiling and the top of the image is thrown well below the projector.

As you will be using a wall shelf at the back of the room, 2ft below the ceiling, you'll probably want a projector that can throw an image where the height of the projector's lens is within the boundary, i.e. top to bottom, of the screen.

I suspect your throw ratio and offset requirements might rule out most 480p projectors. Did you have any models in mind and I could check out the specs.?

Allan
Posted on: 28 June 2007 by Mark R
Hi Allan,

Many thanks indeed for your reply. You highlight areas that I'm attempting to get to grips with in the selection process. The constraints of the budget range I've set myself (essentially entry-level) bring to light limitations I was certainly naive to before starting this trip. It seems the projected image size could increase likelihood of visible pixels (screen door effect?), so that, coupled with the rarity of 480p projectors being available, has made me change my mind: 720p seems to be the way to go for me at the moment (1080p being out of budget range).

So, I was at first looking at entry-level 720p DLP projectors such as the Mitsubishi HD1000C and the Optoma HD70. However, this was before I was aware of the placement limitations these come with: no lens shift and limited "throw range" (new terms this week!). It seems the flexibility I'm looking for comes at a price, in the DLP world, so this has pushed me towards consideration of an LCD projector. My budget has necessarily had to increase slightly, but I'm closing in on two possible contenders right now: the Panasonic AX100u or the Sanyo Z5. Both appear to get good reviews. Currently the Panasonic's better brightness is edging it, as we will not be viewing in complete darkness all the time, although it is a bit more than that Sanyo and the warranty is not as good. The Panasonic also accepts 1080p/24Hz, providing some entry into HD down the road (albeit ultimately downscaled), should it ever arise.

Thanks again,
-Mark
Posted on: 29 June 2007 by Mark R
Hi Munch,

Yes, another good point. Lamps are not cheap are they?! It's difficult to get accurate lamp-life figures and the warranties are very similar (90-day). Interesting that the Panasonic general warranty is 1 year or 2,000 hours, whichever comes first.

-Mark
Posted on: 30 June 2007 by Mark R
Munch - 720p now start at ~$900, give or take a few bob. For me, the attraction of a projector, compared to a plasma, is that it provides a larger picture for the (entry-level) money; is relatively portable and doesn't weigh a ton! Horses for courses.
Posted on: 30 June 2007 by Allan Probin
Mark,

LCD's are definitely more flexible when it comes to positioning. One of your main problems in getting a DLP to work is the long throw ratio you have. With a 720p projector, a screen of about 6.5ft width would be about as large as I'd go for an 11ft viewing distance. The throw ratio would work out at about 2.08 which is just that bit longer than many DLPs can manage. If you could move the seating position back a foot you could go for a 7ft screen width, the throw ratio would be smaller and you'll find quite a few more DLP projectors that will fit.

As you can tell, I'm trying to steer you towards DLP, or at least give you the option. Try and get to see both. If you don't suffer from rainbow effect then DLP, to my mind, is the way to go. The two technologies have quite a different look. DLP looks razor sharp and better depth of image, LCD looks smoother and can be easier on the eye for prolonged viewing. LCD however can suffer from vertical banding and shading issues.

Ok, I'm going to blow your budget away now and suggest you have a look at a Sim2 Domino projector (D30/35) or an Optoma H78/H79 (now discontined). In no way are these budget projectors but they are perfect for your setup. These are designed to be particularly suitable for shelf mounting at some distance behind the viewing position. The Domino's, for example, have a throw ratio of 1.8 to 2.4. The other advantage of course is that they have better optics, contrast ratio, etc than the budget projectors and will throw a really great looking image. The H78, H79 and D30 are now discontinued but with a lot of people upgrading to 1080p, you could find someting nice with low hours.

Allan
Posted on: 02 July 2007 by Mark R
Allan,

Many thanks. I know where you're coming from with the recommendations and I would certainly investigate that direction if I had (a) the room to easily house a DLP and (b) the budget! Unfortunately, the room placement is not that flexible and the budget isn't going to stretch that far, hence now reducing the choice to a couple of LCD projectors. However, I am trying to get a couple of demos together to see DLP and LCD (hopefully not a Sim2!!).

According to "the press", LCDs have come on quite well recently and the gap between LCD and DLP performance is much smaller than it used to be. Have you had a chance to check out any LCDs since your move to DLP?

Cheers,
Mark