Forum Rugby Club
Posted by: JWM on 23 May 2007
quote:
Originally posted by Chillkram in
The Guinness Premiership Thread:
Looks like we might just start up a forum Rugby Club for next season and travel to one or two games.
Well here it is then, started...
A place for discussion of all things Rugby, whether club, national or international...
The next joy we have to look forward to is the
Rugby World Cup. (I imagine it is at this point some of the NZ forum members will join in...)
Any comments, chaps? Or still a bit too early?
James
Posted on: 06 October 2007 by Guido Fawkes
quote:
Originally posted by ROTF:
I admit to knowing very little about Rugby, but I put my £1 to win on England when they were 80-1: would you guys advise I'm safe to start planning what I'll spend my £80 on?
May I repeat my question?
Posted on: 06 October 2007 by andy c
Well - so much for southern hemisphere dominance now!
England v France - wow! I'd have taken that at lunchtime today, and I dare say so would England!
Posted on: 06 October 2007 by JamieWednesday
BLIMEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted on: 06 October 2007 by Whizzkid
France V New Zealand 8 years of rivalry
England V France 1000 years of Rivalry.
Bring it on!!!!
Dean...
Posted on: 06 October 2007 by Rico
I saw the second half - France looked pretty good to me. The ref's unfortunate call for sin-binning; not sufficient to lose a game over. Missing a crucial forward pass was also an 'unfortunate oversight' by the ref. Despite that, it looked to me like the French were all over the All Blacks, played a strong defence, and the All Blacks looked tired to boot. Lost the mental game again, I think. IMHO the best team on the day won.
These new developments will certainly make for a certain air of anticipation for the semi's and the final!
Posted on: 06 October 2007 by Duncan Fullerton
quote:
Originally posted by PJT:
Finally - What is happening to Northern Hemisphere rugby? I personally cant see any Northern teams making it to the semis.
What a difference a week makes ...
Posted on: 06 October 2007 by joe90
ABs vs France: my opinion
I thought the ABs looked the most average they have ever been, but the French should not be in the semis.
The French still manage to cheat and get away with it. They kill the game rather than create it.
The refereeing was disgustingly poor. The sin-binning was tripe and to miss the forward pass was unacceptable. Really, the game of rugby needs to sort the referreeing out. It's not up to scratch considering the magnitude of the games.
Correct score: ABs 18, France 13.
Posted on: 06 October 2007 by John Channing
Sadly the All Blacks are developing a well deserved reputation for being chokers. No team has ever won the tournament after losing a pool game which rules out England and France. The Argies have been saying right from the start that they think they are going to win it, I reckon they may be right.
John
Posted on: 06 October 2007 by joe90
I genuinely don't think the ABs choked, I think they were choked by some very bad luck due to injury, and the killer was that awful non-decision by an inexperienced referee to not penalise a forward pass.
The ABs certainly did not run away with the game, but the French did not win. It was handed to them.
Now winning a game is what the English did to the Australians,or what the Fijians did to the Welsh.
Shame on the IRB for putting a child in charge of the game.
A FIFA referee with as little experience as Barnes would barely be refereeing Outer Mongolia vs Togo in a soccer match.
I think this is very poor.
Posted on: 07 October 2007 by joe90
"It is a shame that the match turned on refereeing decisions. Wayne Barne's decision to show McAllister a yellow card and his missing of the clear forward pass which led to France's final try determined the outcome of the match.
The players deserve better than to have refereeing decisions determine the outcome of matches.
But the All Blacks always knew they would be refereed more closely than other teams at the World Cup."
Barnes' refereeing was easily as good as the refereeing that denied Manchester United the FACup vs Chelsea (and I'm a Liverpool fan).
Problem is, rugby has little ability to do anything about such sh*thouse ineptitude.
Posted on: 07 October 2007 by John Channing
quote:
The refereeing was disgustingly poor. The sin-binning was tripe and to miss the forward pass was unacceptable.
Watching the game live I called the yellow card immediately. I thought it was a deliberate attempt to body check a player running in for a try scoring opportunity. Watching the replays didn't change my mind on that, I thought the referee got it right.
As for the forward pass, the referee definitely missed that one. But that happens in games all the time and it's not as though the French were consistently passing the ball forward to gain advantage.
Part of winning a World Cup is being able to deal with the adversities that naturally will happen. It means still winning games when the occasional refereeing decision goes against you and having enough depth to deal with injuries. Over the last twenty years the All Blacks have consistently come up short in that respect despite often entering the tournament with the strongest team. In my book, that makes them chokers.
John
Posted on: 07 October 2007 by joe90
John
quote:
when the occasional refereeing decision
Occasional??? Barnes' refereeing was inept THROUGHOUT the game.
Missed hands in the ruck near the end.
Missed the forward pass.
Ignored French cheating, but called the Blacks for the same things.
The All Blacks did not look impressive, agreed, but no team should have to suffer such utter crud from a ref.
Posted on: 07 October 2007 by Spike
joe90,
Are you a New Zealander by any chance?
Cheers
Spike
Posted on: 07 October 2007 by Rico
quote:
Part of winning a World Cup is being able to deal with the adversities that naturally will happen. It means still winning games when the occasional refereeing decision goes against you and having enough depth to deal with injuries. Over the last twenty years the All Blacks have consistently come up short in that respect despite often entering the tournament with the strongest team. In my book, that makes them chokers.
Well said, John.
I was disturbed hearing our captain on the night before talking about "we think" and "we hope". Sure, he'll have known he has a nation and press ready to bag him whatever the outcome... call for his head in the event of a loss, and a press that had already started in on them before they left! is that any excuse? In business, if people can't talk positively about what they do they're not taken seriously. The fact is the All Blacks rarely seem to back themselves to *win*. I'd prefer to have seen a different outcome. I'm not about to offer excuses, though!
Bring back the old haka. Maybe writing that new one was a distraction we could have ill afforded. back to a hunger for winning!
Roll on the semis, eh? And back to the drawing board once again. I sure hope they don't call for Henry's blood, though. I think he's a terrific coach.
Posted on: 07 October 2007 by JonR
quote:
Originally posted by tonym:
Hot damn! Great result but I've been over at J.N.'s this afternoon with JonR listening to his superb new 500.
Naively thought I could record the match on Sky (J.N.'s not into sport) & avoid hearing the result.
Got in the car at 5.01 PM. Radio on the news...
Well, I videoed the game (both of them in fact) and kept the car radio off all the way home so I could watch the England-Aus match all the way through when I got back without knowing the result. Cracking game! I still think England rely too much on Wilkinson to score all their points for me but it was most pleasing to see the England forwards completely dominate the frankly hopeless Aussie 'pack'!
As for the NZ-France game, you can argue the toss all day about whether this or that refereeing decision was fair or otherwise, but at the end of the day, if NZ had serious pretensions towards winning the title then they should have been good enough to smash France out of sight, thus rendering any questionable decisions irrelevant. The French deserved to win, full stop (IMO).
Posted on: 07 October 2007 by Spike
The AB need to take a look at their Rugby philosophy if they are to ever win the World Cup again. They must address a number of issues. The first is the arrogance which has characterised their recent progress in the run up over the last 3 years. New Zealand felt deep down that all they had to do in France was turn up and collect the trophy. Secondly, it may be that with having so many Tongans, Samoans and Fijians playing for you that when push comes to shove you lack the bottle, passion and commitment to pull it off. It would also make better Rugby if all the South Sea Islanders played for the country of their birth.
It may be time for another coach. I have serious doubts about Henry. He hasn’t really cut it at the top level and the final hurdle. This is not just based on this World Cup. He coached the Lions in Australia and the team should have murdered the Aussies. Plus he shows little sporting humanity.
Cheers
Spike
Posted on: 07 October 2007 by flyfisher
Pos Team Pl Pts
1 Gloucester Rugby 4 18
2 Harlequins 4 15
3 Saracens 4 14
4 Newcastle Falcons 4 13
5 Bath Rugby 4 13
Posted on: 07 October 2007 by PJT
quote:
Originally posted by joe90:
John
quote:
when the occasional refereeing decision
Occasional??? Barnes' refereeing was inept THROUGHOUT the game.
Missed hands in the ruck near the end.
Missed the forward pass.
Ignored French cheating, but called the Blacks for the same things.
The All Blacks did not look impressive, agreed, but no team should have to suffer such utter crud from a ref.
I agree with JOE90 on all of his points, but also agree that the lack-lustre performance was the AB's undoing in the end, combined with the arrogant selection panel for leaving out major players and playing injured ones. Yes they didi choke, and choke badly. They were out thought, and suckered into playing to France's game plan, with the final nail being the lack of a back row leader' in the last quarter.
A TV poll put 55% blaming the referee, 19% coaching staff as the perceived reason for the loss.
Barnes, however should never have been allowed to blow the whistle on the game. He was totally inept, and did look like he had a chip on his shoulder against the AB's. And when a team can get away with murder (OK, mainly hands in the ruck and offside) they will exploit it to the max.
The consolation was that the Aussie's are out too
Posted on: 07 October 2007 by PJT
quote:
Originally posted by John Channing:
quote:
The refereeing was disgustingly poor. The sin-binning was tripe and to miss the forward pass was unacceptable.
Watching the game live I called the yellow card immediately. I thought it was a deliberate attempt to body check a player running in for a try scoring opportunity. Watching the replays didn't change my mind on that, I thought the referee got it right.
As for the forward pass, the referee definitely missed that one. But that happens in games all the time and it's not as though the French were consistently passing the ball forward to gain advantage.
Part of winning a World Cup is being able to deal with the adversities that naturally will happen. It means still winning games when the occasional refereeing decision goes against you and having enough depth to deal with injuries. Over the last twenty years the All Blacks have consistently come up short in that respect despite often entering the tournament with the strongest team. In my book, that makes them chokers.
John
John, unfortunately we are - and the predictions are on pahe 2 of this thread...
Posted on: 07 October 2007 by PJT
quote:
Originally posted by PJT:
quote:
Originally posted by John Channing:
quote:
The refereeing was disgustingly poor. The sin-binning was tripe and to miss the forward pass was unacceptable.
Watching the game live I called the yellow card immediately. I thought it was a deliberate attempt to body check a player running in for a try scoring opportunity. Watching the replays didn't change my mind on that, I thought the referee got it right.
As for the forward pass, the referee definitely missed that one. But that happens in games all the time and it's not as though the French were consistently passing the ball forward to gain advantage.
Part of winning a World Cup is being able to deal with the adversities that naturally will happen. It means still winning games when the occasional refereeing decision goes against you and having enough depth to deal with injuries. Over the last twenty years the All Blacks have consistently come up short in that respect despite often entering the tournament with the strongest team. In my book, that makes them chokers.
John
John, unfortunately we are - and the predictions are on page 2 of this thread...
Posted on: 07 October 2007 by PJT
quote:
Originally posted by Whizzkid:
France V New Zealand 8 years of rivalry
England V France 1000 years of Rivalry.
Bring it on!!!!
Dean...
Fire trUCK, what a weekend so far.
Wha the hell caused the turn around of form from these semi finalists???
But gotta be said the English scrum absolutely mauled the Aussies, and when Mortlock has a bad day with the boot, they generally lose every time.
Posted on: 07 October 2007 by Spike
Rico,
I actually take great offence at the white supremacist and bigot remarks. That could not be further from the truth, indeed I have wanted every South Sea Island team to win, except when playing against England and desperately want Fiji to beat South Africa at this very moment. I support an ethnically diverse and multiracial society and the right for any person to represent their country of birth or qualification i.e. Mike Catt for England. However, the fact that the AB actively trawl the South Sea Islands for the best talent creaming them off by offering scholarships as a result weakening the Island team and not supporting the development of the countries team. It may just be me but there is a world of difference between and adult making an informed choice to qualify for a Country of his choice and a child been offered a scholarship in a country so he can play for it. Likewise I was against the rushed qualification of Zola Budd for the 1984 Olympics and the grannygate affair with Wales and Scotland in the 1990's. Is this an abuse of the system by NZ? Is this a further mistreatment of the Samoan people by the New Zealand administration which led to Mau, the non-violent popular movement to protest in the 1920’s?
I welcome any foreign player playing in the English premiership and I’m delighted when the best come to my home team, Newcastle Falcons. I had conversations with two of the best – Pat Lam and Va'aiga Tuigamala when they played for and led the Falcons to the inaugural premiership.
Please don’t make damning accusations. Just because you say them to me it does not make them true. Indeed I would like an apology for the spiteful remarks. It may be that you are still bitter with you teams failure but that does not give you the right to call me a white supremacist and bigot.
Posted on: 07 October 2007 by JamieWednesday
Can't wait 'til Saturday
On, on, you noblest English.
Whose blood is fet from fathers of war-proof!
Fathers that, like so many Alexanders,
Have in these parts from morn till even fought
And sheathed their swords for lack of argument:
Dishonour not your mothers; now attest
That those whom you call'd fathers did beget you.
Be copy now to men of grosser blood,
And teach them how to war. And you, good yeoman,
Whose limbs were made in England, show us here
The mettle of your pasture; let us swear
That you are worth your breeding; which I doubt not;
For there is none of you so mean and base,
That hath not noble lustre in your eyes.
I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,
Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:
Follow your spirit, and upon this charge
Cry 'God for Harry, England, and Saint George!'
Posted on: 07 October 2007 by Rico
quote:
It may be that you are still bitter with you teams failure but that does not give you the right to call me a white supremacist and bigot.
Spike
Surely if you read my contributions to this thread, you will clearly see I am anything but bitter about 'my teams' not winning against France. I'm a little sad, sure; certainly not losing objectivity. The All Blacks didn't lose so much as they were beaten, pure and simple!
I did say I hoped I had misinterpreted your remarks. However, you've posted nothing to qualify your suggestion that only New Zealand-born players could have enough passion and committment to play good rugby for New Zealand when the chips are down, and the clear inference that players born outside of NZ lack these qualities. It's as well you use the term 'islands', Australia being a continent.
So: What would be okay for you? First generation okay? Second generation? Where would you draw the line? Or would there have to be clearly demonstrable links to the first boats in, or the indeginous tribes on the nation or colony in question? Wait in their birth-country until voting age? Where does Jerry Collins fit in your virtual world cup? Would you have preferred Jonah Lomu been limited to playing for Tonga given his antecedents? Tana Umaga?
Your very views that race or birthplace would pre-qualify anyone as lacking in qualities required to play rugby (or do anything, for that matter), stink of bigotry and I do not profess to understand them.
good luck to you!
Posted on: 07 October 2007 by joe90
quote:
The AB need to take a look at their Rugby philosophy if they are to ever win the World Cup again. They must address a number of issues. The first is the arrogance which has characterised their recent progress in the run up over the last 3 years. New Zealand felt deep down that all they had to do in France was turn up and collect the trophy. Secondly, it may be that with having so many Tongans, Samoans and Fijians playing for you that when push comes to shove you lack the bottle, passion and commitment to pull it off. It would also make better Rugby if all the South Sea Islanders played for the country of their birth.
It may be time for another coach. I have serious doubts about Henry. He hasn’t really cut it at the top level and the final hurdle. This is not just based on this World Cup. He coached the Lions in Australia and the team should have murdered the Aussies. Plus he shows little sporting humanity.
What eloquence.
You could insert any team in place of New Zealand when talking about an upset of this magnitude.
However pretty your speech is, unless you are on the IRB panel, or have bugging devices inside Henry's brain and more besides, all just piffling conjecture.
If one analyses the FACTS of the game, NZ played poorly. France did no better. However, NZ did enough to win 18-13. An average score, but better than England v. Australia!
The FACTS are the refereeing was utterly dreadful. Even a cursory knowledge of the rules of the game shows that Barnes was way off most of the time.
Useful conjecture would be that there is something wrong with the laws of the game (too many), or referee selection processes and standards, as not just Barnes, but most referees in rugby get too much wrong, too often.
As for this 'North/South Interpretation', bollocks to that.
