Keltik Kwestion

The Keltik is a highly room-dependent loudspeaker. In 70% of rooms it sounds worse than Isobariks, in 30% it sounds better.

It is advised that the treble and mid driver units in the Keltiks are replaced with the new ones found in the Espeks. Indeed many Keltik owners are replacing their loudspeakers with Espeks.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
"Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." Frank Zappa

I've never heard Keltiks sounding particularly good, though it has been four years or so since I heard a set. It was weird since in some situations they sounded too big and muscular and in others they sounded thin and vague.

We had the Espeks in the shop for a while. We thought they were terrible. Tried them with the usual suspects - i.e. Linn, Chord, Naim, Arcam - nothing seemed to work. No scale, no timing, no frequency extremes...just noise.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

I have Kans and Briks (active or passive). You're wrong...

Paul

quote:

---

We could go back and forth on this "I'm right"/"Your wrong" thing forever

---

Well maybe only for a week or so, we wouldn't want to bore people...

quote:

---

Do you active briks? If so, are you able to control the bass output? If so, try lowering the bass output of your briks and then compare them with the Kans... It's a more "fair" comparison I think you'd find.

---

I don't think I can turn the bass down enough. But this rather defeats the object, the implication is that Isobariks can be made to sound worse than Kans, which is a statement of the reasonably obvious.

My experiences are that most other speakers have a bass hump, they sound like there's bass going on all the time. Briks don't (this probably applies to any speaker that actually goes deep). Aktiv (with the Linn Aktiv box) Isobariks image really well, but without a specific hot spot. Perhaps partially to do with the upwards facing drivers and partially to do with the time alignment done in the crossover?

I can envisage situations where Kans will be a better solution than Briks, but if you can cater for the larger speaker I think they're a fantastic solution. Especially given the cost and the resaleability. Hifi for free....

(I have a theory that Keltiks are very much better than their reputation. One day perhaps I'll gamble some pittance and find out...)

Paul

quote:

---

The idea was to remove the seductive bass quality of the isobarik and expose the flaws in other areas of that speakers performance.

---

I see where you are going.

When my Briks come back from their Stealth powered sojourn over the road I'll do some experiments. But the things I like about Briks are the imaging, dynamic range, mid-range quality (!), abilty to sound good at all levels from very low to outside in the street, their capability to fill the house with music. Kans simply cannot achieve most of this.

On a theoretical note the mid range units in Briks have loads less work to do than the mid/bass unit in Kans. I'd expect this alone to give the Briks a boost.

Paul

I've noticed that the Keltik's seem to have several iterations. Is there anyone out there that knows they history of any upgrades?

It also seems that there are several possibilities for the active crossover and it seems a bit confusing. I know they make the Activ internal cards for their own amps (with either stereo or mono cards.) They also seem to have a Klimax active crossover ($9,500!!!), The Tunebox, for use with other non Linn amps, and there also seems to be a dedicated Linn Activ Crossover (self contained box with phono jacks)as well which is specifically made for the Keltiks.

What is going on here? Why do they need so many crossover versions for this one speaker?

Any Linn Bin sinners out there in the know?

Arthur Bye

Part of the Linn philosophy includes keeping the aktiv cards close to the power amp and not introduce additional connections, hence why the full Linn solution has the cards inserted directly in the power amps.

The other solution for those who use power amps from other manufacturers is to use a Tunebox between the pre and power amp. I believe there is also a Klimax crossover, which is probably aimed at the Komri loudspeaker. Maybe there will be other Klimax crossovers for the Keltik and soon-to-be-released Akurate loudspeakers.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Linn Binn Sinner

Andrew:

Thanks for the response. I actually spoke to someone who was selling his Keltiks but he had to sell them with the Crossovers that he said matched the Klimax amps and were $9,500 msrp.

Seemed a bit much for a set of crossovers so I was not sure if I should believe him or not. That fancy aluminum case must cost a lot of money. I guess the Klimax version has the newer switch mode power supplies. Even so 9.5k seems over the top.

Arthur Bye

IIRC a Klimax Kontrol is about £6000, as is a Klimax Stereo. I wouldn't be surprised if the Klimax Krossover was priced coincidentally...

The classic Keltik setup would be with the mono cards mounted in Klouts, (or LK100s for the less well heeled...). I don't know whether Linn made stereo Keltik crossover cards (to suit LK85/LK140/the fancy 5 channel job). And I also don't know whether the 2250 supports internal cards.

FWIW I think a 4 Klout Keltik system might have some potential, and would be relative bargain second-hand. Probably not an appropriate topic for discussion here though...

Paul

Paul Ranson wrote:

quote:

---

Probably not an appropriate topic for discussion here though...

---

What I was working my way around to was if there is any way to use a Keltik in a Naim based system. I've got a few leftover Naim amps and have always wanted to get a good listen to Keltiks. Is there any way to do an active Naim based system with Keltiks? The 3-6 Snaxo I guess could work but I sure would like to do the double amp thing on the woofers the way Linn does. Need a Snaxo 4-8 for that though.

The only other way I can see is to use a TuneBox/Activ Box. Not sure if Naim amps would like all those phono connections though.

Anybody out there ever ever go active with Keltiks?

Arthur Bye

I think to do it reasonably right you'd need Linn Aktiv cards and a Tunebox. If you got serious you could custom build a Tunebox with DINs, it's just some wiring and a power supply.

A SNAXO3-6 would 'work' but unless it's been done before you'd be on a bit of an adventure...

All Keltiks are active, so crossover components of one form or other should come with the speaker.

Paul

Paul:

You are correct that most Keltiks are sold with some extra bits as they are active. Seems like most who have them also want to sell LK85, 140's or Klouts with them including the activ cards.

I've just actually managed to pick up a Linn Keltik Activ Tunebox (dedicated motherboard for Keltik's)for $100. Lots and lots of RCA's on the back.

There shouldn;t be any problem connecting a Naim pre to this, what I'm concerned about is connecting a Naim amp. I've always heard that connecting Naim amps to anything other than a Naim pre is a no-no. Impedance mismatch, bandwidth limiting or something. Can't remember why. It looks like a messy job putting dins on the back of the Tunebox. Probably better to make up special cables. Would lose the star ground though I guess.

Arthur Bye

If you use a Naim pre then I would be very surprised if the 'signal conditioning' were undone by the Aktiv. Certainly your power amps will be safe.

It may be possible to use a three core signal cable between the crossover and the power amps, and only connect the earth to one phono outer. It depends somewhat how the signal earth inside the crossover is distributed. For $100 you can afford to take a look...

Anyway it sounds interesting. I'm very fond of my absent Isobariks, but the Kabers I'm using presently are rather less intimidating in the room. I think Keltiks might be a visual compromise, but only once they've depreciated to Brik levels...

Paul

Paul,

before you go overboard on the Keltik: Ulrich Michalik, who used to write obscenely glowing reviews about Linn gear as a journalist and now works as Linn Germany's PR person, used to have a full-on Keltik system. He is now said (I have it second hand but on reasonably good authority; if I'm wrong, surely someone will correct me) to have given up the Keltik system for a Katan/Sizmik system, preferring the latter to the Keltik musically.

I knew a Linn rep once who expressed a preference for Kabers over Isobariks. The new over the old etc. I know he was wrong...

Paul

Melinmont wrote:

quote:

---

Each piece apparently takes one machine 8 hours to grind to an accuracy of one micron.

---

Hmm.. this is to house a lowly crossover? Bit like polishing a turd isn't it?

Most crossovers have pretty inelegant digs from what I know.

I certianly hope that the Keltik Klimax Crossover elements have some worthy improvments to justify the rather outrageous price.

Here's a piccie


Arthur Bye

[This message was edited by Arthur Bye on WEDNESDAY 06 August 2003 at 22:50.]