Should I go for a NAC 112 or 202?

Tom:

To answer your specific question, you really need to hear the 112 compared with the 202 in the same (preferably your) system.

That said, there are some things you could consider. First, have the 32, the SNAPS, and the 250 serviced by Naim. The improvement provided by the service might surprise you--servicing will make everything sound quite a better. Second, check the Asak and replace it if necessary. Third, have the LP12 thoroughly serviced (if you haven't done so in a while).

Given your system, I think a 202 would be more appropriate. If you don't mind going the used route, an 82 might be an even better bet.

I have no commment on the modifications suggested above, except to note my strong disagreement with the idea that a 52 is merely a re-wrapped 72. While I understand the circuit basics are similar, the execution of the 52, and the resulting musical performance, are in another realm.

Good luck!

Bob Edwards

Pacmi,
I think you're fairly new to the forum, but a word of friendly advice - the Naim moderators don't really encourage discourse on kit modifications on their forum, quite understandably I think.
You may find that the PinkFish forum, to which many Naimies belong, is a more appropriate place for this kind of thread.

TomK,
I'd go for the 82, but I bet it won't be long before someone comes up with the suggestion that you should be trading the CD3.5/FC up to a CDX/XPS. If you've not had the kit serviced though, I reckon that would be a good first move.

David

"Beauty is in the eye of the Beer-holder"

Pacmi,

I'm in this for the music. As much as I love the 72, the 52 is so much better at musical communication that the 2 preamps probably shouldn't be mentioned in the same paragraph.

Disdaining the 52 - or any other item - because of its circuit design is perilously close to arguing 'bits is bits', or 'all amps are the same'.

'Perilously close' is far from 'the same', so I won't respond to howls of pain in response to this assertion.

TomK,

At one point there was some speculation that the an item in the new series bettered the item that was level higher in the old series - i.e. the 202 may be better than the 82. If your budget allows a new 202, I'd listen before deciding...but if I hadn't become enamored of remote control, I'd still have my 72/hi.

Regards.

Phil

Hi Tom

Sensible advice from Bob Edwards.

I use a 112 and a 202 (in different systems). The performance gap is big, and the 202 has much more potential by adding a NAPSC and a Hi-Cap (which is hugely better than a F/C).

You need to listen to new and old - I sold old style kit for the new, but it's really a matter of personal preference.

In essence; I think the old amps have a very visceral exciting sound, but are a bit two dimensional.

The new amps sound sophisticated, with more spatial information, but retain great rhythmic drive.

As ever; you must listen.

Good luck.

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Originally posted by J.N.:
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I use a 112 and a 202 (in different systems). The performance gap is big, and the 202 has much more potential by adding a NAPSC and a Hi-Cap (which is hugely better than a F/C).


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Hi J.N.

I'm wondering if you could elaborate regarding the differences of the 112 v 202 and explain what set up you are using with the 112 . Also, would the "performance gap" be as noticable using a cd5 as source, partnered with a 150 (hi-cap) vs a cds2, 250, etc.

Regards

Max

Hi Max

I use my 112 with a 150 in my study system. Naim CD3 (Not CDS3!!!) and Linn Saras are at each end.

The fact that the 150 happily drives the Saras, is proof of what a capable amplifier it is.

I've heard the 112 to 202 dem at my dealer a couple of times, with a CD5. The difference is substantial.

The gaps get bigger, with a better source of course, but a CD 5 is well up to the job of revealing the potential of a 202.

Good luck.

The 202 also can be powered by a Supercap. I did not compare a 202 with a used 82, but I recently purchased a 202 and am delighted. Highly recommended.

MBM

I took a look at the link, but I don't think I fully understand your comment. I'm not really familiar with the Supercap. I know a 202 can be powered by a Supercap (although I'll be happy if I can swing a Hicap one of these days), but are you saying that a Supercap will provide a better improvement to an 82 than the 202, or that the 202 cannot fully utilize all of the benefits of a Supercap as an 82 can? If so, could you explain why? Thanks!

A 32.5 can take a supercap, but TomK seems to have a 32, and I think there was something in the forum saying that upgrades to the 32.5 are no longer available.

Someone on the forum ran a 32.5/s'cap for a while. It's much better than the hicap in terms of performance, but perhaps is not all that cost effective. Only a 52 fully exploited the s'cap. Perhaps the 252 & 282 do, too.

To summarize:

1) The 32/snaps/250 should be serviced, unless the 32 is going out the door. The 250 NEEDS service, if it hasn't been done since the '80s.
2) The 202 is considerably better than the 112.
3) The 202 may or may not be better than the 82.

Pacmi, no one suggested that TomK buy a 52. You brought the subject up, and 2 folks disagreed with you. As often happens, a line that you probably just wrote in passing caused some controversy. This often happens when one strays from the point. I'm not going to say how I learned this, but you might deduce it's from experience.

Having said that...if I had the money, I'd buy a 52 in a minute. To my ears and gut, it provides GREAT vfm, far better than any other Naim preamp that I've heard. (I haven't heard the 2xx series or the 552 at any length. I will agree that the cdx2/xps2/552/500 into new Quads is magnificent playing the Naim recording of Beethoven's First Symphony, but I haven't considered the vfm of that collection.)

If you've heard the 52 and not been swept away, so be it. But the 52 has gone straight to my heart every time I've heard it.

Regards.

Phil

Thanks for all the advice folks. To be honest I was more or less thinking aloud when I posted this. I’m well aware that I had to make my own mind up by comparing the amps but I guess that deep down inside I was hoping somebody would say, “Get the cheaper one. It’s far better, and the rest of your system is just fine as well.” Sadly though the upgrade bug has been reawakened after a few years of near dormancy and having heard the improvements made just by upgrading the CD player I won’t be able to stop there. Today I bought a 202 and once more I’m hearing things never heard before (how many layers are there on Pet Sounds?). Having the 250 serviced (or preferably upgraded) is next on the list.

Is there no immunisation available for this disease?

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Is there no immunisation available for this disease?

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Only being broke, not reading this forum and never, I really do mean NEVER, listening to anything "better".

Reading threads like these is quite scary for someone considering dipping a toe into the 5 series shallow-end, am I going to be sucked into re-mortgaging the (girlfriend's) house?

Seth
Is Naim the only way forward?
Ahh, Ahh! I'm burning!!