Amarra ,can software make a difference?

Why not just try it - if you don't think its for you then you've not lost anything. I'm very happy with what it does

James -

A couple of quick question re Amarra.

How much memory do you have in your Mac Mini - also what file format are you using?

Cheers

Richard

quote:

Originally posted by paremus:
James -

A couple of quick question re Amarra.

How much memory do you have in your Mac Mini - also what file format are you using?

Cheers

Richard

I am not James, but let me share my experience.

I tried Amarra with a white Macbook/1 GB RAM, then a black Macbook/2 GB and now it runs on a brand new Mac Mini with 4 GB RAM and 128 GB SSD storage.

I have all kinds of files from 44.1k/16 bit up to 192k/24 bit, mainly AIFF and some WAV. No problem with using a Konnekt8 (firewire conencted), or Mytek 96DAC and Lavry DA10 through the Toslink out and worked fine with a firewire connected big 8 channel Mytek 192ADDA.

All combination sounds really good, but the SSD driven Mac Mini is mighty fine with the big firewire connected Mytek converter and Amarra. All the D/As were connected to my pro amps and speakers using balanced XLR connection so YMMV i a Naim system.

The Macs with 1 GB RAM had only a problem when I tried to play ALE then switch back to a high - resolution WAV or AIFF file. Amarra had to be closed and restarted to work properly in this case, otherwise it worked well with 1 GB RAM.

I'm running 1GB ram at the moment. Its getting more in the next couple of weeks (read the Amarra manual and saw 3GB was recommended. Not having any problems with it (its dedicated to music anyway with spotlight and dashboard disabled so no memory hogging activities running). Actually the only problem i had was with some Naim downloads which turned out to be due to the 1.8MB album art !

All files AIFF - i don't bother with compression to avoid any excess loads due to on the fly decompression.

James

There is a very interesting thread over on 'Computer Audiophile' regarding Amarra ,see 'Symposium part 4' in fact the whole thread is fascinating.

DHT - Just read the article. Very interesting.

james / ferenc - Thanks. Currently have 1 GB of memory and notices that Amarra is a very heavy user - indeed up to 1.25 GB/s of virtual. Seems to make VNC quite sluggish.

I started looking into this - as to be honest - I could detect no discernible audio difference. I was using Apple Lossless. My suspicions were raised when I realized that as well as the metering not working - the Amarra trial software was not periodically silencing the music. So I suspect Amarra ignores Apple Lossless rips.

Interesting! The only reason for this would be the on-the-fly decompression - the effect of which I've never heard with ALAC v.s. AIFF with iTunes.

Moving to a AIFF rip and meters work and periodic silences are there - and "I think" significant audio differences.

More in due course.

Cheers

Richard

I must say that I am enjoying my 'computer music' much more since I have changed to the ASIO4ALL output device which bypasses all the Windows garbage-producing software-interferences. Much cleaner and more natural sounding music.

It can be used easily from within foobar2000.

I don't know if anything like this is available for Mac?!

-
Aleg

quote:

james / ferenc - Thanks. Currently have 1 GB of memory and notices that Amarra is a very heavy user - indeed up to 1.25 GB/s of virtual. Seems to make VNC quite sluggish.

I'd like a feature to turn all the crap off - VU meters and such as i don't use it and prefer to run it all minimised. In fact a stripped down version of OSX would be good too for a dedicated machine.

James

James SL will be as stripped as you need, there is not a lot more you can take out of it without it no longer being an OS, in which case you should be looking at the dedicated streaming devices. The benifit I find in running an mac mini with 4 gigs of ram is that I can listen to music/watch a film whilst othe rtasks are underway. Seems to be the point of a computer to me and to try and lump it in with traditional audiophile products is not going to work IMO, i.e. implying that with sufficient ram it still needs everything turne doff in order for the auiod to work, or indeed charging 800 quid for a bit of audio software.*

*Anyone check out audio hijack pro for 20 quid? Of course its not £800 so cannot possibly be doing the same thing/as good a thing.

One other thing, surely the OS/itunes is decomrpessing on the fly anyway, you pick your lossless tunes, its decompressed an played. Where EQ is being applied it must surely be going through real time adjustment, just like amerra software, so in that respect there is nothing special occuring.

Finally I would imagine the amarra software will have no effect for wireless streaming, so say an ATV, at least in my experience EQ changes etc have no effect on streams into ATV.

I know that Amarra will not play compressed files mpgs for example ,it switches off and itunes takes over, Sonic recommend AIFF.

Gary - I've got plenty of other machines to do other stuff on. The mini was bought for music duties only - turning off spotlight et all - i dont need them so why run them ?

quote:

One other thing, surely the OS/itunes is decomrpessing on the fly anyway, you pick your lossless tunes, its decompressed an played. Where EQ is being applied it must surely be going through real time adjustment, just like amerra software, so in that respect there is nothing special occuring.

Yes agree about on the fly decompression (if playing lossless) - but where does the EQ come in ?

Well I was just giving an example. If you were to apply eq from itunes it would be applied as needed.

As an example apple measure battery life on ipod in terms of music being played with the EQ off. With it on more processing is occuring to add real time effects.

quote:

Originally posted by Aleg:
I must say that I am enjoying my 'computer music' much more since I have changed to the ASIO4ALL output device which bypasses all the Windows garbage-producing software-interferences. Much cleaner and more natural sounding music.

It can be used easily from within foobar2000.

I don't know if anything like this is available for Mac?!

-
Aleg

I see it's been upgraded quite a bit though still not true ASIO. I was not impressed with an early 16 bit max version. I'll take your word at this being better and I could understand why in conjunction with a Vista platform.

Ferenc, if you get a chance, try a psc on the TC. It gets warm as it's a 500ma regulator but it's held up well and is better than other things we've tried. Easy enough to adjust. I have no idea if it will be better than what you're using but I'd be curious regarding your views.

quote:

Originally posted by js:
Ferenc, if you get a chance, try a psc on the TC. It gets warm as it's a 500ma regulator but it's held up well and is better than other things we've tried. Easy enough to adjust. I have no idea if it will be better than what you're using but I'd be curious regarding your views.

Thanks for the suggestion, I have a psc somewhere so I will try it sometime in July and let you know.

quote:

I would hate anything to be [more] exagerated. Flat is not how I would call it ...

But sometimes reality is flatter than you think! Try a real concert in a great concert hall. It may surprise you how unexpected the result may be after really Hifi replay has conditioned you ...

Not quite sure what you are on about here George - it's not a tone control. It's just revealing a lot more than iTunes does - no exageration, just more music.

James

quote:

Originally posted by james n:
It's just revealing a lot more than iTunes does - no exageration, just more music.

James

How exactly? Are we going to start talking about the sonic benefits of OS's and routers? Maybe even modems?

Will my Naim downloads sound better if received with a $1450 modem?

All bit perfect players (software) should pass along all of the same bits and pieces.

If iTunes can be improved with Amarra running behind it, there must be something "wrong" with iTunes. Must.

Now, if Amarra is doing something else e.g. EQ-ing, replay gain, bypassing the Mac OS's volume controls, i.e. as ASIO does, or in some way disabling something iTunes does to degrade the sound (possible), I can understand a sonic difference.

I can see it as a useful studio tool for sound pros. But as an alleged "add-on" for simple bit perfect playback for iTunes, it seems like a snake-oily scam.

-p

I'd like to know that myself Patrick - correct information on how iTunes plays files (even with all EQ off etc no decompression) is hard to find. Whatever its doing (and i'm sure the other guys who have tried Amarra will agree) is something that iTunes isn't and i'd like to know what that is.

quote:

All bit perfect players (software) should pass along all of the same bits and pieces.

A bit like all CD players should sound the same.

I presume you haven't actually heard Amarra?

James I know you have heard Amarra my question was directed at PC!

quote:

Originally posted by james n:


A bit like all CD players should sound the same.

Not really, you are putting words in my mouth. I did not say all bit-perfect players "sound" the same.

and DHT, no I have not. How could I without dropping $1450 on it? The demo is pointless.

Lastly, it is or Mac only. There is NO WAY I will use my Mac for audio duties. No way.

-p

quote:

Originally posted by james n:

A bit like all CD players should sound the same.

No... it is more like, all Naim CDPs are equally enjoyable despite their degree of "fine-ness".

The CD5i I demoed was easily as enjoyable as the CDX2/XPS2 (might have been a 555ps). Maybe not as "good", and certainly not given what the CDPs were feeding.... 252/300 vs 102/180.

But I would be very pleased to own a 5i. and will probably buy one on the cheap when the new line drops.

Why on earth wouldn't you use a mac for audio, it is a superb device, the best interface around and it sounds super.

Nobody seems to know what Amarra is really doing, I tried to find out and although it is the hottest computer audio topic at the usual forums nothing about how it works.
The company says they don't manipulate the data, no DSP or EQ effects. They claim bit perfect output.
All we know is that it has a miraculous audio engine that uses memory resources intensively and that it takes the company a lot of years to develop it.

Which variables are playing here? I agree those who think the difference might be in the OS, Amarra might be optimized to work with Mac's OS and itunes, avoiding their weaknesses. What else could it be if the audio data is not manipulated?

We will see soon Amarra competitors at more sensible prices (one has been yet announced in CA forum). For PC there are also interesting developments I haven't tested yet (Cmp/Cplay or XXHighEnd).

The computer audio chain seems to be even longer than the analogue chain (taking apart most of the computer components): audio formats, hard disk vs ssd, software players, OS, audio devices and DACs. It seems every variable plays a role making the bit perfect issue completely pointless.

At the end of the day it looks very attractive an optimised solution such as the HDX.

Or auditioning exactly the arrangement you propose to use, and then sticking to your guns to get it without change if you like the way it works.

It was ever thus.

Auditioning is crucial.

ATB from George