Outstanding drummers

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Originally posted by Jonathan Hales:
Are you THE Fred Simon, Fred Simon?

And who's that then and whats your relationship with Paul Wertico?

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Most likely, I am one of several Fred Simons.

Paul was in a band I co-fronted in the late 70s and early 80s called the Simon & Bard Group. He recorded and toured with us for several years before joining the Pat Metheny Group. He also played on an album of mine released in 1988, Usually/Always.

Released on Windham Hill by any chance?

Yes, I brought it during my new age phase.

Nice work!

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Originally posted by Jonathan Hales:
Released on Windham Hill by any chance?

Yes, I brought it during my new age phase.

Nice work!

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Yes, released as part of their "not just new age" series.

Thanks for the kind words.

Sorry,

Didnt want to mix you up with Shadowfax and all that whale watching music.

When I think about it, Paul McCandless and Scott Cossu were closer to straight Jazz I guess.

Why do you think Wertico has been dropped for the latest (excellent) Metheny Group album after so many years and the other shakeups in the lineup.

And I guess a performing musician who uses Naim to listen to other peoples music is a good sign.

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Originally posted by Jonathan Hales:
Sorry,

Didnt want to mix you up with Shadowfax and all that whale watching music.

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Hey, I like watching whales as much as the next guy!

But as with every genre of music, there is only good and bad.

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When I think about it, Paul McCandless and Scott Cossu were closer to straight Jazz I guess.

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Paul McCandless is a world class musician/composer in his own league, and in his own genre. Most aficionados of "straight jazz" wouldn't consider him such, nor would "new agers" consider him new age. He transcends category.

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Why do you think Wertico has been dropped for the latest (excellent) Metheny Group album after so many years and the other shakeups in the lineup.

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His own choice; time to move on and do his own thing. In addition to many of his own projects, he's been working a lot with Larry Coryell, who has been sounding better than ever.

Billy Cobham for sure - Spectrum and Crosswinds both excellent; and Terry Bozzio - Polytown is a must have album (Bozzio arsing about with David Torn and Mick Karn), as is Situation Dangerous (Bozzio arsing about with Steve Stevens and Tony Levin).

Alex

Hey Guys.. Has no-one yet mentioned Alan White? As far as his contribution to Yes, he was the man by far - sooo much better than BB, who IMHO is a bit full of himself, and it shows I'm afraid. Not a great fan of Bill, although I do respect his awesome technical skill and his work with King Crimson, which I believe is where he shines brightest (Maybe because he is with another bunch of bigheads ). I love King Crimson.

Hi Fred.
Mitch Mitchell? Interesting. I can't say I've ever payed any real attention. I will now.
I still say Paul Thompson for his sound/emotion/drive/subtlety. Almost perfection. Almost. As close as it gets anyway.

2cents worth :

Bill Bruford for Rock Fusion (Yes/Crimson).
Baker, ok for 'twas innovative at the time of Cream (still interesting with his work with Haden).
John Bonham, his power is so vital to Led Zep.

Nobody's mentioned Roy Haynes in Jazz, I really like his playing.

I also like Chester Thomson's druming with Genesis.

Peter

Much are mentioned but what about Jon Hisemann from COLOSSEUM? Besite Ginger Baker he's one of the best for me.

Hermann (560 FEP's)

Fred - I don't know how I forgot about Mitch Mitchel. He definately had a huge influence on the Jimmy Hendrix Experience sound, as well as being an awesome player. Another "Rock" drummer who I believe had a heavy jazz influence growing up and could easily of played in both idioms - as does Ginger Baker today.

Alex S. - Terry Bozzio - monster drummer and Zappa alum

Speaking of monsters . . . Minky - lol.

Regards

Max

Nobody mentioned Robert Wyatt (Soft Machine) or Maureen 'Mo' Tucker (Velvet Underground) yet. I still love them as drummers.

Plenty of goodies, ones that stand out for me these days include Steve Gadd, Jerry Marotta, Pat Mastelotto, Bill Bruford, Paul Wertico, Tom Bancroft, Charlie Watts. They're all groovetastic, and can swing when they need to.

Neil Peart's great for rock pyrotechnics, but I'm not convinced he can fall back to "less is more" where it really helps.

My favourite drum/percussion part is Paul Wertico on Pat Metheny's "Last Train Home", where he just plays cymblas to make like the last train home. Simple, and absolutely perfect for the track: anything more or anything less and it just wouldn't work as well.

Pete.

Steve Gadds drumming on aja is utterly mesmerising, even after the 300th listening session!

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Hermann,

Didn't have you down as a Colosseum fan That's made me want to play Valentyne Suite tonight - cheers!

nick.lees at btinternet.com

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Put me down as another Colosseum/Hiseman fan, on Valentyne Suite and Morituri Te Salutant - got 'em both as Vinyl 1st Pressings - Yummmmm!
[/gloat-mode]

David

PS: What about Joe Morello (Brubeck quartet) the master of 5/4 - has nobody thought of him??

Hi,

How about Clyde Stubblefield. One of James Brown's drummers. He is the funky Drummer. He maybe the world's most sampled drummer.

Dean

Thank goodness, DISCO!

This thread was being starting to be dominated by wanky jazz-fusion session musos who might have the "technique" but who couldn't hold a decent beat down if they tried.

Then you put up your post and my faith in human nature (or should I say human hearing) was restored!!!

Love, Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for that.

There are many fine drummers who have contributed & help shape the wonderful world of popular music.

Others include John "Jabo" Stacks who play with James Brown on many records.

William "Benny" Benjamin was part of the Funk Brothers, who was the in house band at Motown. He played on a lot of the classic Motown tracks around 1963-1967.

Earl Young was drummer that played on a lot of the Philly Soul records in the 60s, 70s & 80s. He was part of Gamble & Huff's house band, MFSB. He also sang with the Trammps.

Joseph "Ziggy" Modeliste was the drummer with the Meters who were super funky & pioneering.

Also thumbs up to Lloyd Knibbs was the drummer in the Skatalites, the greatest ever Ska Band.

Dean

Dean

I absolutely agree with you about Modeliste. Top, top band, The Meters.

And who was the drummer for the Bar-Kays?

Kevin

Ian Paice, Deep Purple
Ginger Baker, Cream

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Originally posted by Pete:
My favourite drum/percussion part is Paul Wertico on Pat Metheny's "Last Train Home", where he just plays cymblas to make like the last train home. Simple, and absolutely perfect for the track: anything more or anything less and it just wouldn't work as well.

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Definitely agree about the drum part being the perfect thing for the musical whole.

However, Paul is playing a snare drum with brushes to achieve the fast (16th notes) chugging of the "train." He also plays accents on the high-hat cymbals (the two opposing cymbals on a post that open and close, via foot pedal, to meet each other) on the 2nd and 4th beats of each bar, but the main train sound is the snare drum with brushes.

Just thought you'd like to know.

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Originally posted by Kevin-W:
This thread was being starting to be dominated by wanky jazz-fusion session musos who might have the "technique" but who couldn't hold a decent beat down if they tried.

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Such as which ones, Kevin?

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Originally posted by Nick Lees:

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Originally posted by fred simon:
So many great drummers mentioned. But curiously, no one has mentioned surely one of the best:

Mitch Mitchell

He was Hendrix' equal in innovation and in defining the sound of the Experience.

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Fred,

Even with this relatively new appreciation, I'm not sure I'm with you in terms of [Mitchell] equallying Hendrix' innovation, though I'll grant you that it must have taken a special guy to hang on to his coat-tails when he was in full flow and that they wouldn't have been the same band without him.

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Hi, Nick.

A stark illustration of Mitch's genius is to compare his drumming on Are You Experienced? album with that of Buddy Miles on Band Of Gypsies. Both masters, but while Miles pretty much sticks to laying down the groove, Mitchell is churning time and texture, interacting with Hendrix much as a jazz drummer would. In fact, Mitchell's professed main influence is Elvin Jones, and in Mitchell's playing one can easily hear the tumbling, swinging triplet-laden feel that Elvin mastered. Mitch innovated the incorporation of this approach into rock/pop music.

This nuanced churning of the drums defined the sound of Hendrix' early work as much as his own playing did. Can you imagine Manic Depression with a straight groove drummer instead? Take a listen with that in mind.

I agree with Kevin. Technique is nothing if it doesn't stir the soul. It isn't about who is the cleverest, it's about who turns you on (of course that takes technique, but I hate showing off for the sake of it - ie. "wanky"). I don't know that it's fair to single out jazz-fusion though Kevin.

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Originally posted by DavidY80:
Unquestionably Neil Peart. IMHO the greatest drummer of his generation.

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Yup. I'd go with that assessment too.

As a drummer of semi-professional and more recently as-good-as-retired status, there are for me two schools of drumming: drumming as accompaniment to music and drumming for its own sake.

It's easy then to categorise accordingly: the great 'band' drummers and the great 'chops' drummers. I'll leave out for now the Jazz guys as that's a different kettle of fish...

Any discussion of band drummers has to include (in order):

1) Stuart Copeland (ex of The Police), perhaps the finest 'pop' drummer of our times in a technical sense.
2) the late John Bonham (ex of Led Zep), the finest rock drummer who influenced us all
3) the late Keith Moon (ex of The Who), mad, crazy, energetic and a personality.
4) any/all of the James Brown drummers - they defined a generation of beats, trips and defined 'funk'
5) Ringo, just 'cause.

For showy, technical or 'chops' drummers:

1) Vinnie Colaiuta (ex of Zappa, Sting): perhaps the most technically capable player on the planet
2) Dennis Chambers (various fusiony things): defines power and stamina with awesome chops.
3) Dave Weckl (session, the Beckham of drumming): technically gifted, somewhat over-exposed but still a star.
4) Terry Bozzio (ex of Zappa, Beck): He's so cute (in a drumming sense, must be all the vi-ta-min eeeeee).
5) Buddy Rich: controversial choice, not so PC but what a drummer - a leader and a musical dictator...
6) Bill Bruford (ex of Yes, etc.): the quintissential prog rock drummer, showy and technically adept, an enigma...
7) Bill Cobham (ex of Mahavishnu): there's so much I could say about this guy, so much. One word: Master.

That's my ten. Urm, twelve. There are many, many others, but these ones would have to figure in my list of great drummers.

John

TC '..'
"Sun went down in honey. Moon came up in wine. Stars were spinnin' dizzy, Lord, the band kept us so busy we forgot about the time."