Outstanding drummers
Posted by: Rasher on 04 October 2003
My choices would be:
Paul Thompson for the first two Roxy Music albums. My first choice.
Mike Shrieve for the first Santana album.
I think they brought a new level to drumming, made it a real emotional instrument, which others seem not able to do.
Paul Thompson especially.
Keith Moon was a bit good too.
Paul Thompson for the first two Roxy Music albums. My first choice.
Mike Shrieve for the first Santana album.
I think they brought a new level to drumming, made it a real emotional instrument, which others seem not able to do.
Paul Thompson especially.
Keith Moon was a bit good too.
Pierre Moerlin (from Gong - particularly the YOU album) for his creativity and raising consciousness while he played with free jazz and funk dance rhythms while holding down the 4/4 rock backbeat.
Elvin Jones for making me cry at Ronnie Scotts
Alex Acuna for being a boy from a peasant background in Peru who virtually walked to the US and became what he did.
All African and Latin drummers both hand and stick, not forgetting Tabla players and everybody who has tapped on a table and all your blessed heartbeats!
the whole effin world is a membrane on which to beat!
me, cause I play a mean Mozambique!
Steve
Elvin Jones for making me cry at Ronnie Scotts
Alex Acuna for being a boy from a peasant background in Peru who virtually walked to the US and became what he did.
All African and Latin drummers both hand and stick, not forgetting Tabla players and everybody who has tapped on a table and all your blessed heartbeats!
the whole effin world is a membrane on which to beat!
me, cause I play a mean Mozambique!
Steve
quote:
Originally posted by tony vesuvio:
The best rock drummer ever is Neil Peart bar none.
This raises some issues which are of great concern to me. Let me say from the outset that my comments are not in any way intended to disparage anyone, but, rather, to engage in friendly discussion. This is the spirit with which I hope my words are taken.
Given that the thread subject is "outstanding drummers," I'd like to point out, with all due respect, that while obviously Peart qualifies as an outstanding drummer (though not my own favorite cup of tea; I much prefer Mitch Mitchell, for instance, who is another outstanding drummer), it's not useful to proclaim someone "the best (any genre) drummer bar none." First of all, how would one even begin to measure such a thing?
More importantly, why should there even be a "best" musician (on any instrument) in the first place? Music is not an athletic competition. Where does the need to pronounce one as "the best" come from? Why can't we all be more than happy to recognize that just as there are many, many great human beings, there are many, many great human being musicians ... no need to rank them. I think the drive to rank derives from our innate desire to have our own taste validated, a desire which while perfectly natural, can be counterproductive. I've always felt that it was essential to maintain clear separation between one's own taste and more objective assessments of worth, so that one's world view is not strictly defined by one's taste.
If you mean to say, "Neil Peart is my favorite rock drummer" then, great ... just say that. I'm all for it, although speaking for myself, not only do I not find it useful to proclaim a musician as "the best, bar none," I can't even whittle down my favorites to just one, or even five ... there are just too many outstanding drummers of many flavors. In an earlier message Kurt declares Elvin Jones "the best drummer, of course." But where does that leave other equally great jazz drummers such as Jack DeJohnette, Tony Williams, and Philly Joe Jones, just to name a few? Further, how can a drummer firmly rooted in one genre be fairly compared to another rooted in a different genre? How do we pit Elvin Jones against Neil Peart (just to take the two examples I've singled out)?
I've no doubt that someone here will inevitably tell me to "lighten up," and perhaps understandably so. I really don't mean to be too heavy-handed about this, I'm not out to castigate anyone and, as I said above, I'm only raising the issue as a matter of friendly intellectual discussion, but I do think these are important things to consider if one is at all interested in fostering as open and flexible a mind as possible. If it's just a matter of semantics, that if by saying "so-and-so is the best drummer, bar none" all one really means is "so-and-so is my favorite drummer," a statement with which no one can justifiably argue, then in the interest of promoting communication and understanding, please just say what you mean. Otherwise, and again, with all due respect, it's too much of a pissing contest.
quote:
Originally posted by fred simon:
I've no doubt that someone here will inevitably tell me to "lighten up," and perhaps understandably so.
Hey Fred, Lighten up...
I love it when you go to such lengths to be diplomatic, but always manage to rip a strip off someone in the nicest possible way
Personally, I would say that Neil Peart is technically very good, but his playing to me is arrogant, pompous and just showmanship. I have a problem with his very right wing politics which has nothing to do with his drumming, but makes me even more biased than I already am
On the other hand, nice to have you along Tony and don't worry, it's always like this.
quote:
Originally posted by Rasher:quote:
Originally posted by fred simon:
I've no doubt that someone here will inevitably tell me to "lighten up," and perhaps understandably so.
Hey Fred, Lighten up...
I love it when you go to such lengths to be diplomatic, but always manage to rip a strip off someone in the nicest possible way
Thanks, Rasher. But I really don't mean to rip anyone; I'm just raising food for thought.
quote:
Personally, I would say that Neil Peart is technically very good, but his playing to me is arrogant, pompous and just showmanship. I have a problem with his very right wing politics which has nothing to do with his drumming, but makes me even more biased than I already am
To be honest, I really don't listen to a lot of Rush or Peart, and had no idea what his politics are. If he is indeed right wing, that makes me even less interested; for me, politics have a lot to do with one's humanity and, thus, musicianship.
quote:
BTW Fred, good to see you back here again.
You're sweet.
No, I would never say that only leftist musicians can be excellent; I'm sure there are plenty of great musicians are right wing nuts.
What I said was that knowing Peart is right wing makes me even less interested in spending time hearing him than I was before, which, for musical reasons, wasn't very much to begin with.
But this opens several interesting cans of worms, and each worm is a different shade of gray. Ultimately, music is larger than any one human, which is why some of the most sublime music has been made by humans who have behaved despicably. I like to think that in those cases, the music represents their best possible self. And quite possibly such is the case with Mr. Peart, as well.
But I've also noticed that one's world view does factor in with many of my favorite artists. If The Beatles, for instance, had written, without a trace of irony, All You Need Is Hate, Give War A Chance, and similar such songs, I'm not so sure I would be as enamored of them as I am. I find that my politics do generally align with those of my favorite musicians: Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, James Taylor, Shawn Colvin, Rickie Lee Jones, Sting, Pat Metheny, Lyle Mays, Keith Jarrett, Pete Seeger, Stevie Wonder, Danilo Perez, Charlie Haden, Willie Nelson, Jonatha Brooke, for instance.
It's not that I'm automatically prejudiced against people with different political beliefs than my own, but it all depends on what those beliefs are. Like everyone else, I have my line drawn in the sand.
What I said was that knowing Peart is right wing makes me even less interested in spending time hearing him than I was before, which, for musical reasons, wasn't very much to begin with.
But this opens several interesting cans of worms, and each worm is a different shade of gray. Ultimately, music is larger than any one human, which is why some of the most sublime music has been made by humans who have behaved despicably. I like to think that in those cases, the music represents their best possible self. And quite possibly such is the case with Mr. Peart, as well.
But I've also noticed that one's world view does factor in with many of my favorite artists. If The Beatles, for instance, had written, without a trace of irony, All You Need Is Hate, Give War A Chance, and similar such songs, I'm not so sure I would be as enamored of them as I am. I find that my politics do generally align with those of my favorite musicians: Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, James Taylor, Shawn Colvin, Rickie Lee Jones, Sting, Pat Metheny, Lyle Mays, Keith Jarrett, Pete Seeger, Stevie Wonder, Danilo Perez, Charlie Haden, Willie Nelson, Jonatha Brooke, for instance.
It's not that I'm automatically prejudiced against people with different political beliefs than my own, but it all depends on what those beliefs are. Like everyone else, I have my line drawn in the sand.
Manu Katché anyone?
Sorry Fred, but I think that although Sting may be burning tons of fuel by flying around the globe to preach about global warming, (therefore making himself ecologically active) he is in fact a bit of a Tory boy. I think you may find him rubbing shoulders with other Conservative supporters such as Elton John, Phil Collins, Eric Clapton etc etc.
I'm not sure that he would like it known though.
Unless you know different of course
I'm not sure that he would like it known though.
Unless you know different of course
He lives in the hugest mansion and has "staff", but if his heart is in the right place, then that's OK by me. We call them "Champagne Socialists".
It must be tough to have so much wealth and try to hang on
to ideals. I'm not about to criticise 'cos I wouldn't stand the test myself, but it was just you implied that he was left wing.
Not wishing to labour the point (pun intended), but it comes to mind that there may be more right wing drummers than any other musician. That's probably total rubbish, but of the drummers that I've met, it may be true.
What the hell, eh?
It must be tough to have so much wealth and try to hang on
to ideals. I'm not about to criticise 'cos I wouldn't stand the test myself, but it was just you implied that he was left wing.
Not wishing to labour the point (pun intended), but it comes to mind that there may be more right wing drummers than any other musician. That's probably total rubbish, but of the drummers that I've met, it may be true.
What the hell, eh?
quote:
Originally posted by Rasher:
I have a problem with his [Neil Peart] very right wing politics which has nothing to do with his drumming, but makes me even more biased than I already am
I would certainly vote for Neil Peart as one of the best, but I'm interested to know what you base your assertion of "right wing" politics on. Are you still harping back to his reference to Ayn Rand?
quote:
Originally posted by tony vesuvio:
And by the way, ...I can piss further than you!
Byeee
Apparently.