Bach vocal recommendations

I don't know about best, but I picked up a double CD of cantatas in Virgin today for a very reasonable £6. The CD's on the Virgin Veritas label, and features six cantatas (presumably a "greatest hits" approach) performed by Collegium Vocal, Ghent as conducted by Philippe Herreweghe. Amazon link:

Bach - Cantatas

I've only listened to the first CD so far, but it sounds like delightful stuff. Beyond that, I'm at a loss, as this is my first experience of vocal Bach, outside of the obvious classics (Passions, B Minor Mass), so I'll be watching this thread closely!

The recording by Helen Hunt Lieberson on Nonesuch of two famous Bach cantatas "Ich habe genug" and "Mein herze schwimmt in blut" is very beautiful.

Apropos small scale works:

Josua Rifkin advocated the wiew, that the chorus-movements in Bachs church-music should be sung by one sunger per part. He has recorded a small number of the most known cantatas. They have become released (midprice) on two Decca-CD (Oiseau-lyre)sets,and this represents some of the most beautiful and intime Bach-singing I have heard, and are wholeheartedly recommended.

Links:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bach-Favourite-Cantatas-BWV-Rif...id=1187640906&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bach-Cantatas-Johann-Sebastian/...d=1187640973&sr=1-13

They look just the job and I'll give one or both a spin. I have bought an ECM New Series recording of Bach motets by the Hilliard Ensemble, which I spotted in HMV in Chichester. It's very good and, interestingly, has the 8 members of the ensemble split into two 'choirs' - each person taking a part. It seems that Bach scholars believe this was the original appoach in Bach's day, rather than the larger choirs more commonly used. But what to I know - still it's fun to learn.

Nigel

quote:

Originally posted by hungryhalibut:
It seems that Bach scholars believe this was the original appoach in Bach's day, rather than the larger choirs more commonly used.

This may very well be the case, but for what it may be worth I'll sound a slightly contrary note. There is a good example from Haydn (albeit slightly later) who conducted two performances of The Creation, once with large forces the other (if memory serves, on the occasion of some award) with much smaller. It seems to be the case that he was simply working, in both cases with what was available to him.

Though I think historically informed performance is important, and it's interesting to look at what was done in the composer's day, there is always a degree of doubt in this regard and it should be used to inform what may make for a good performance (for example, in a very big hall, you might want more singers - back in the composer's day the space used would likely have been much smaller, etc.).


I must look into some of Poul's recommendations as I don't really know Bach's vocal work all that well. For a much larger approach, though, I'm very fond of Giulini's unapologetically romantic view of the B minor mass on BBC Legends.

regards, Tam

One special Bach cantata is Ich Habe Genug, as mention above, sung in that case by Lorraine Hunt.

My special favourite in this is sung by Hans Hotter and is utterly amazing on several levels. Hotter has a massive voice, but he can so control it that no aspect is lost! Then add in a massive sensitivity to the words and you have the makings of a truly great performance. This sensitivity does not lead to the kind of ultra detailed word painting such as Fischer Dieskaw used to employ, but a way of catching the mood on an almost subliminal level.

What is extra-ordinary about the Cantatas is that they were Bach's weekly work [hence the great number of them!], and the thought that there might be some padding is simply not true - at least that is JE Gardiner had to say about it. I remember discussing these 200 odd works with R de S [Rodrigo de Sa] several years ago [off Forum, and consequence was my long term investigation of the keyboards works, and I still know very few of the weekly Cantatas]. He used to post here [See Tam's Threads Worth Reading, and look out for R de S's long postsing on H Walcha in the organ works, but also then look through his other posts]. His view was that they are actually very fine, but not such perfectly finished works as the famous choral work such as Passions from Saints Matthew and John, or the B Minor Mass, or the Easter and Christmas Oratorios, but they are full of Bach's greatness, and the counterpoint is splendid, but "rougher" [R de S's word!] than elsewhere.

I remember having a discussion with Poul [pe-zulu] about whether Bach had ever made a musical gramatical error, and we turned up one between us in one the Organ Trios Sonatas... No doubt if that is what you were hunting for, there might be the odd slip in some of the Cantatas, but they are cut from the same great cloth as the other works from him. No doubt you already know more than me about them, and I hesitate to make specific suggestions. I suspect that this is a bit of a suck it and see opperation. Try some one to a part performances, and even venture as Tam suggests into the region of Guilini leading the B Minor Mass, though I have a problem myself with romanticised Bach.

I hope you keep this thread going and report your thoughts!

Kindest regards from Fredrik

quote:

Lorraine Hunt

Thanks for that, Fredrik - searches on Helen were fruitless, but Lorraine more so! I have found it for £5.99 and will give it a spin. There are certainly a lot of cantatas and it is so helpful for a pointer. The ECM Motteten disc is very good. I think the key for me is to listen to a little at a time and get to know the pieces.

Nigel

quote:

The recording by Helen Hunt Lieberson on Nonesuch of two famous Bach cantatas "Ich habe genug" and "Mein herze schwimmt in blut" is very beautiful.

I received this yesterday, and agree that is is quite beautiful and a captivating listen. Thank you so much for the recommendation.

And such gloomy 'lyrics', it make the Smiths seem positively jolly!! And that's positive - I much prefer gloomy!!

Nigel

Dear Nigel,

There is a wonderful melancholic vein in central European culture, which is cosmically uplifting. I never thought of Bach and the Smiths in the same breath! Wonderful parallel!!!

I find uplift in the joy and sadness broached by Bach, for all that!

ATB from George.

Fredrik - is that you with a name change?

regards, Tam

I have been buying the John Elliot Gardiner "Pilgrgramage" recordings as they come out. This is a complete cycle of all 209 cantatas performed at various churches around the world over the course of a calendar year. The quality of the recordings is somewhat variable, as indeed is the quality of the cantatas themselves, but overall these live performances when they click far outclass anything from a studio IMHO.

Dear Tam, Yes. Email sent. ATB, George

Nigel
There are several recordings of Emma Kirkby singing various cantatas. Not at home so can't list them, but they are definitely worth seeking out. She has a truly beautiful voice which seems very well suited to this music, as well as Handel, Mozart and earlier composers.

Archive, I believe, embarked many years ago on a complete recording of the Cantata's. Most were conducted by Munchinger and featured a cast of first rate soloists. The Lp's had beautiful covers but this has been ruined on the CD re-issues.

My favorite Cantata recording is the 'Wachted Auf" conducted by Ristenpart, originally issued on Nonesuch and a true hi fi recording from the early 60's.



US

quote:

There are several recordings of Emma Kirkby singing various cantatas

I have a CD of Emma Kirkby singing Dowland songs with Anthony (?) Rooley playing lute, and agree that she has the most lovely voice. I imagine she would be great with Bach. If you have any specific recommendations that would be great.

NIgel

Dear Nigel,

Please send to

Fredrick1961@hotmail.com

as I have some ideas on Bach for you, but they are probably offline material! You can post, if you like them, of course!

ATB from George

Try the Magnificat in D major BWV 243. It has full-blooded choruses as well as arias, but is not a long work. It is a very good introduction to JSB's vocal works.

I don't know which recording is considered the best, but the Naxos cd is recommendable, if you want a budget-price issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Dai Compi:
Try the Magnificat in D major BWV 243. It has full-blooded choruses as well as arias, but is not a long work. It is a very good introduction to JSB's vocal works.
I don't know which recording is considered the best, but the Naxos cd is recommendable, if you want a budget-price issue.

Yes!, this is very good! A bit holy for some people's tatse, but i think most of JSB's vocal musik probably is...
Personally i don't let being a pagan stand in the way of good listerning : )

Magnificat BWV 243
Cantata BMV 21 "Ich hatte viel Bekummernis"
Antonella Balducci ~<>~ soprono
Ulrike Clausen ~<>~ alto
Frieder Lang ~<>~ tenor
Fulvio Bettini ~<>~ baritone

Motet BWV 225 "Singet dem Herrn ein neues Lied"
Robera Invernizzi ~<>~ soprano
Annemieke Cantor ~<>~ tenor
Furio Zanasi ~<>~ baritone

Conductor ~<>~ Diego Fasolis

Live Recording Chiesa de S. Francesco, Locarno, Switzerland - 9th May 1994

ARTS [DDD] @ 1997 Total Time 74.05