Upgrade with Nap 180?

Posted by: Erik (DK) on 12 June 2002

Having a few years ago found my way out of the "Hifi Hell" (you all know what I'm talking about) I've setteled with a Naim / Linn combo that really suits my taste.

More specific: Lp 12,lingo,akito2,k18
Cd 3.5
Nac 92, nap 90/3
Tukans
Linn speaker cables.

Most the time, though, I find myself listening to quite simple music, featuring only few instruments at a time. That is partly due to my taste, but also, at times, caused partly by the gear. This tendensy both applies to vinyl and cd. As I understand, one of the most important features of the naim / linn gear is it's ability to combine "drive" and "refinement". With somewhat complex and bass dominated music my system falls short.

My wish is:
First of all to get more overall/ balanced drive. I need the feeling of the bass being, not more dominating, but just as comtrolled as the midrange/ treble, hence the fealing of "music".

I reckon that my problem is not that of the source, primarely. First of all because cd and vinyl suffers the same problem. Secondly because the speakers feels "uncontrolled" in a way, hence making me feel the lack of power. I may very well be way off here, I know that. Finest sollution would be upgrade the cd with ps and upgrade arm cartridge and so on. Meanwhile what I'm looking for is a sollution that in one step applies for cd and vinyl.

More specificly I'm considdering a flat-/hi-cap for the preamp OR a nap 180 (that I've been offered at aprox. 580 £). Is it correct that the 180 has a greater power supply for the preamp than the 90/3? If that's true, buing the 180 would be upgrading the pre and power at the same time.

Now I know that there a lot of fine people in this forum. May I ask of you to please comment on my problem? And please, don't make me go back the way I came from. I need simplicity in my life. After quite a few years of experience with hifi my greatest considderation is that of NOT upgrading. Please share some of your "non-fanatic" experiences. If I'm not satisfied with my combo as it is - will I ever be satisfied? I'm just loking for the opportunity to turn up the volume and listen to some music without having the sound colapse. Is that possible?

That leeds me to a much more interesting setup by the way:
1 SORENSEN Thomas (GK)
2 TOFTING Stig
3 HENRIKSEN Rene
4 LAURSEN Martin
5 HEINTZE Jan
6 HELVEG Thomas
7 GRAVESEN Thomas
8 GRONKJAER Jesper
9 TOMASSON Jon Dahl
10 JORGENSEN Martin
11 SAND Ebbe
12 JENSEN Niclas
13 LUSTU Steven
14 JENSEN Claus
15 MICHAELSEN Jan
16 KJAER Peter (GK)
17 POULSEN Christian
18 LOVENKRANDS Peter
19 ROMMEDAHL Dennis
20 BOGELUND Kasper
21 MADSEN Peter
22 CHRISTIANSEN Jesper (GK)
23 NIELSEN Brian

Good luck on saturday
Greetings
Erik from Denmark
Posted on: 12 June 2002 by woodface
I ould look at a pre-amp upgrade 2nd hand 102 or 82. I had a similar amp set-up to you and found the 82 a big step forward. This will give extra coherance and refinement.
Posted on: 12 June 2002 by redeye
NO!

I lived with 92/180 combo for 18 months. Would I do so again?
Feck NO!!

Do your source(s) or pre amp first. The 92/180 is not one of their better combinations. A 102/Napsc with your 90 makes way more sense (for now)


regards
redeye

ps..yes indeed Denmark looking very good smile
Posted on: 12 June 2002 by Jean-Marc
I used to have the same combination as yours (waiting for my 82 anyday now big grin ).
One big improvement was to add an HiCap to the 92.
I agree with Redeye, the 92/180 is not the best combination you will find. Upgrade your pre amp first (a 102 for example), but consider to also have a P/S for your preamp.

Congrats to Danemark ....
Jean-Marc
France
Posted on: 12 June 2002 by Jean-Marc
quote:
Originally posted by Jean-Marc:
I used to have the same combination as yours


Just a precision, my system was 92/Hicap/180.

JM
Posted on: 12 June 2002 by Sproggle
Erik (DK):After quite a few years of experience with hifi my greatest considderation is that of NOT upgrading. Please share some of your "non-fanatic" experiences. If I'm not satisfied with my combo as it is - will I ever be satisfied? I'm just loking for the opportunity to turn up the volume and listen to some music without having the sound colapse. Is that possible?

I have also reached the point where I want to escape from the cycle of upgrading.

Since you have two good sources but are not satisfied, I think the answer to this problem is to upgrade your pre-amplifier and only then, if necessary, upgrade the sources and pre-amp power supply. Contrary to popular belief, improving the pre-amp does NOT make poor sources sound worse. In my system [see profile] my upgrade from 32.5 to 102 was very successful, improving the performance of all my sources - including my "budget" cassette deck which I can now enjoy listening to as never before.

Don't even think about upgrading your 90. Your system will sound better with a better power amp but it will also make you more aware of how much better it could be - the opposite of what you want.

--Sproggle
Posted on: 12 June 2002 by garyi
Upgrade to a 102 pre amp. The 92 is a very capable pre amp but the 102 is something else indeed.

Power is nothing without control.
Posted on: 12 June 2002 by Erik (DK)
I think I get the point now, the control and "balance" is not caused by lack of watts or "power" (as in "power amp"). I'm pleased that some of You point out that to much money spend on the power amp will actually bring the sound further out of balance.

I'll try a better stand for my system (thanks James). I didn't know it mattered that much. Haven't seen the Mana in Denmark, but as I've heard it's quite a few money spend? Couldn't I do with a regular, quite rigid, but not too heavy stand?

Secondly I'll considder a preamp upgrade.
None of you mentioned the nac 72. Is it not worth the upgrade or is the 102 just a better match confused

I'm tempted to do a plain flatcap upgrade (hooked on the nac). Should I deffenitely go for the hicap right away or would that on the contrary bring it further out of balance - would it make me focus on what it "could" sound like
confused

A strait preamp upgrade, i.e. 102 seemes like a good upgrade, as You recommend, in terms of balance and control. But using a (mm)phono board in the pre amp wouldn't I be better of with a cap when listening to vinyl?

You've all been a great help already, thanks

Regards
smile
Posted on: 12 June 2002 by Boz
I too had a nac92/nap90.3 (went from nait3) and then added a s/h Hi-cap, wow what a difference !! more bass, more transparency and more of that old X factor you can't put your finger on but you know everything sounds more "together".

My Naim dealer swears by this upgrade to the 92.90 although as with other responses to this topic I think moving to a 102 or much better (but a lot more cash) an 82 would really take things to next level especially if with Hi-cap.

Boz

David J Bostock
Posted on: 12 June 2002 by Phil Barry
Well, the answer depends somewhat on money available, but if it's in the UKP580 ballpark....

Once in a while, there is a question which really does have a 'right' answer and plenty of wrong ones. This is one of them, and Jean Marc and Boz are the only ones who got it right.

A Hicap will do exactly what you say you want - and it will see you through many more upgrades, as well. A Flatcap2 may also give you the control you need, but I can't speak from experience about it. A Hicap is far better than a Flatcap.

A 72 without a hicap will sound sharper (i.e. like a knife in your ears) and more strident than the 92; a 72/hi will make you wonder why you ever owned a 92 or 92/hi. A 72/hi is not as good as a 102/hi or 82/hi, but, at least IMO, a 72/hi is better value for money.

Seriously, as for most things, there isn't a single right answer here. Your best bet is to listen to the available options. If the 180 is really cheap and good, it may be a viable option. If you can get to a dealer to hear the options, that would be best. After all, they're your ears, and it's your money.

But if you need to take a chance based on faith, your best first move by far is a Hicap.

Regards.

Phil
Posted on: 12 June 2002 by Eric Barry
If I were you I would demo the 92/flatcap2, 92/hicap, and 102 and forget the power amp for now. No one believes it til they hear it, but adding a power supply sounds like a power amp upgrade as well as a preamp ugrade.

It is possible the Flatcap2 will have an advantage, or be close to the hicap at a lower price, due to the facility to power the CD3.5 as well as the preamp. But your ears will have to decide.

--Eric