What do you think?

Faster at 30 watt.. .. another sad joke! I think it is the time you should go and check out the Bryston line.

Tuan,

Power and speed are not the same, while they met each other at some point.

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another sad joke! I think it is the time you should go and check out the

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... esentials of phisycs.
You should take a listen Classe to find out what am I talking about.

Ozren

quote:

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Originally posted by Ozren Herold:
Tuan,

Power and speed are not the same, while they met each other at some point.

quote:

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another sad joke! I think it is the time you should go and check out the

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... esentials of phisycs.
You should take a listen Classe to find out what am I talking about.

Ozren

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power and speed can be together. That is my point. Go and check out the Bryston line.

Tuan !

I agree with you that Bryston is ok. Bryston is nothing new for me.
Did you ever heard Laboratory 47?

Ozren

One of my worst ever hifi listening experiences was with Classe. First I listened to a cj Premier 11 (70 wats/channel pentode, maybe triode); then the Classe

From tonal purity to total tonal abnormality in just a few seconds....Oy! Combine Classe and Bose 901s and I might never listen to recorded music again.

Regards.

Phil

I've a nait 3 so I don't know about modern amps.

cheers

Nigel

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Faster at 30 watt.. .. another sad joke! I think it is the time you should go and check out the Bryston line.

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Speed, timing, resolution, pitch accuracy. None of these are necessarily related to paper power. Watts mean very little, considering that the majority of most of our listening is done in the first watt.

My current stereo power amp has less than 30w per side on paper, but has more P, R and T than the previous 200w monoblock amps it replaced. It also sounds *considerably* more powerful at all but headbanging levels in my 18'x15-ish'x10' room. Speakers are 90db, 4ohm.

So, power is to PRaT as sugar is to salt. Or something like that.

John

TC '..'
"Sun went down in honey. Moon came up in wine. Stars were spinnin' dizzy, Lord, the band kept us so busy we forgot about the time."

Nice said John, but noone actually has expressed some thoughts about my question.

Ozren

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Originally posted by Ozren Herold:
Nice said John, but noone actually has expressed some thoughts about my question.

Ozren

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Which modern amps are you referring to. Cheap Chinese built, more expensive Japanese amps stuffed with "facilities" or so called state of the art audiophile brands from USA, Europe etc.

If your referring to audiophile brands then I feel that a lot of them (those that i've heard anyway) put the emphasis on getting the last iota of detail at the expense of the music. Certainly slower than Naim for instance. But there are just to many brands to make a sweeping judgement.

Yours in Music

Syd

DNM PA3^S

Certainly not slow. Certainly as musically and capable for regular listening as a NAP500* based upon my recent chance to hear such a beastie. But then, not particularly cheap...

You're not so far away - you're welcome to come hear for yourself and make your mind up.

John

TC '..'
"Sun went down in honey. Moon came up in wine. Stars were spinnin' dizzy, Lord, the band kept us so busy we forgot about the time."

* This will set the cat amongst the pidgeons, but you will not believe it unless you have had a chance to hear it. It remains the best power amp I have had the chance to hear, though the best preamp remains the NAC552...

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Originally posted by Top Cat:
DNM PA3^S

Certainly not slow. Certainly as musically and capable for regular listening as a NAP500* based upon my recent chance to hear such a beastie. But then, not particularly cheap...

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Top Cat,

Is DNM substitute for NAP500 or did you switch over from Naim?

Syd,

I am thinking about so called high end amplifiers.

Dozy,

Slew rate, rise time, who cares. Noone can know
and measure that at home. I mean, when you turn the music on, sit on the sofa and tell... man, this is slow.

Ozren

A director of hi-fi magazine for which I write reviews own VPI Aries/JMW Memorial, Cary pre amp/mono blocks and Alon Circe with external crossovers. Now, THAT'S what I called slow.

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Is DNM substitute for NAP500 or did you switch over from Naim?

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It's not so much a substitute as an alternative option in the same sort of ballpark. I have never had, but have spent a lot of time listening to, Naim systems (at all levels) - some good, some mediocre, some great. I bought my original DNM preamp based upon comparative auditions against the similarly priced Naim option at that time (82) and the DNM was significantly ahead. The PA3^S was bought later.

I also have a small Naim-centred system, based around a now completely reconditioned Nait 2, which is an amp which delivers at a really attractive price. For me it is the essence of what I like about Naim without the price. That said, it cannot come close to the DNM kit in any way, shape or form, though I wish it could as I'd get a lot more selling the DNM than I would the Nait!

Anyway, I digress. My original point was that paper power specifications can be largely irrelevant in the context of a relatively efficient modern speaker in a moderate sized room (such as I have) and as a consequence other factors, such as the circuit design, setup, materials used and so on, have a greater bearing upon the PRaT, 'musicality' and integrity of the sound.

A NAP500 has these things, at a price. It also is capable of driving much more difficult loads. The PA3^S delivers at least as much as the NAP500 based upon my not entirely comprehensive auditioning (who has the time?) but without the extra cost that delivering that level of sound quality and musical integrity across much higher power outputs incurs. If that makes sense.

Strip away the need to drive ba*d loads and circuits can be made a lot simpler, and we all know that in general terms, simplicity can be the key to great sound. It takes serious engineering to maintain that great sound at higher output levels and so the price rises out of proportion to the actual sound quality gains at moderate levels. Again, if that makes sense.

Taking, as ever, a camera lens analogy - a simple lens design using the best glass will almost always outperform a more complicated design using the same glass but with more elements. A 50mm prime to your 28-70 zoom, if you will. The same would appear to be true of power amplifiers, and I guess preamps too.

Just the ramblings of someone relating what they have experienced as a listener, not as a technician.

John

TC '..'
"Sun went down in honey. Moon came up in wine. Stars were spinnin' dizzy, Lord, the band kept us so busy we forgot about the time."

Playing Devil's Advocate for a moment...

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Naim amps have a little something extra that just plays pure 'music'.

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No, they don't have anything extra. They just produce a sound that you prefer. With respect (as I don't wish to offend), such statements are somewhat blinkered and typify much of what occasionally spoils this forum. Be open-minded, Naim Is Not The Only Fruit

John

TC '..'
"Sun went down in honey. Moon came up in wine. Stars were spinnin' dizzy, Lord, the band kept us so busy we forgot about the time."

quote:

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Originally posted by Top Cat:
Playing Devil's Advocate for a moment...

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Naim amps have a little something extra that just plays pure 'music'.

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No, they don't have anything extra. They just produce a sound that you prefer. With respect (as I don't wish to offend), such statements are somewhat blinkered and typify much of what occasionally spoils this forum. Be open-minded, Naim Is Not The Only Fruit

John

_TC '..'_
"_Sun went down in honey. Moon came up in wine. Stars were spinnin' dizzy, Lord, the band kept us so busy we forgot about the time._"

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I beleive they do have something "Extra" over Most other amps in that they are designed to sound fast and coherent with IMO all types of music, indeed some have even criticised them for being to fast. To me the design criteria was to emulate a live music sound as opposed to the amps designed to extract exactly what's on the recorded master tape (or hard disk nowadays). This to me at least is the essence of Musicality as opposed to HI FI. I suspect this why I have never been able to get on with headphones.

Yours in Music

Syd

Buffy,

I totally agree with you !

Ozren