A general rant about driving standards

I should add that I have nothing against women drivers as a group, just a subset of them, just as there are subsets of male drivers who annoy me.

p.s. must remember to check my spelling/grammar before posting (there/their error in this case)

quote:

Originally posted by Dr John William Martin:
Most of the local huge 4 wheel drives seem to be driven by women, a large number of whom (in winter) seem to think that the laws of physics don't apply to them, and also seem incapable of driving on their own side of the road.

I strongly disagree... I don't think these women know what the laws of physics are...

But I do agree about their own side of the road - I currently spend some time driving a classic mini (17-year-old's first car) and it's an eye-opener competing for road space with the school-run 4x4s.

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Originally posted by tonym:

quote:

Originally posted by Dr John William Martin:
If someone desperately trying to get into a queue of traffic is using their indicators, then I will let them in. If they don't, well they can wait there forever as far as I am concerned.

I do that too John. Childish I know...

Agreed, very childish. I don't use indicators under this circumstance as you can see what I'm trying to do and I am reliant on your courtesy to allow me to do it. I'd feel like I was trying to force my way in through some 'right of indicators flashing'.

Worst of all for me are those twats who feel the need to teach lane awareness under heavy motorway traffic, pulling in and out of the inside lane, undertaking etc. when the most sensible thing to do is go with the flow.

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Agreed, very childish. I don't use indicators under this circumstance as you can see what I'm trying to do and I am reliant on your courtesy to allow me to do it. I'd feel like I was trying to force my way in through some 'right of indicators flashing'.

Worst of all for me are those twats who feel the need to teach lane awareness under heavy motorway traffic, pulling in and out of the inside lane, undertaking etc. when the most sensible thing to do is go with the flow.

Ah, I wondered how long before we got a dissenting contribution. Refusing to let you in is not childish, it's merely responding to your thoughtlessness and ignorance of the Highway Code in failing to signal.

How do we know whether you want to turn left or right, or even if you're just sitting there daydreaming? ALWAYS signal. I don't know where you get the idea that signalling makes anybody think you're trying to force your way in. Not to do so is bad manners and bad driving. People like you who don't always signal tend to forget to signal when you really should. Are you one of those prats who don't signal just because you can't see another car (especially at night)? What about the poor pedestrian who is just about to cross the road at the junction you turn into without signalling. I care - because that pedestrian may well be me.

Oh, and just in case you ask - I practice the "alternate cars" rule when 2 lanes of slow-moving traffic are filtering into one - this includes roundabouts. After all, on roundabouts you can only be turning left, and for all I know you might be going straight across the roundabout. Do you signal when you're exiting a roundabout, or is that "optional" as well?

IF IN DOUBT SIGNAL EVEN IF NO ONE IS THERE. Then you will always do it without having to think about it.

You're obviously one of those middle lane hogs, but I would agree with you about undertaking which is something I virtually never do, although it can be very frustrating when you get some idiot sitting in the middle lane when the nearside one is empty for a least a quarter mile ahead and the outside lane is already full "because I'm in a car and I don't use the inside lane" - like it's beneath them. Moving to the inside lets faster traffic pass you and hopefully stops them tailgating you.

quote:

Originally posted by Paper Plane:
Something that always gets me irritated is lorries that "overtake" by going 1mph faster than the lorry they are trying to pass, holding everyone else up in the process.

What's the bl**dy point?

steve

That winds me up as well.

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Originally posted by bornwina:

quote:

Originally posted by tonym:

quote:

Originally posted by Dr John William Martin:
If someone desperately trying to get into a queue of traffic is using their indicators, then I will let them in. If they don't, well they can wait there forever as far as I am concerned.

I do that too John. Childish I know...

Agreed, very childish. I don't use indicators under this circumstance as you can see what I'm trying to do and I am reliant on your courtesy to allow me to do it. I'd feel like I was trying to force my way in through some 'right of indicators flashing'.

It's courteous to indicate, very sensible, and the Highway Code says you must. I wonder how many people actually read the Highway code these days?

A good friend of mine's a traffic cop in Kent & when stopping people for a traffic violation he usually ends up asking them "...and what does the Highway Code say sir/madam?"

Whenever topics around motoring run there's always lots of posts and the majority point out how cross, wound up, angry and fed up people get over what are really pretty trivial matters. So what if a lorry is stuck in the outside lane for a few miles? A pensioner is pottering along at 40 in a 60 limit?

Something strange happens to people when they get behind the steering wheel of their car.

Across the Hogs Back yesterday a Focus studiously drove all the way in the outside lane at 55 mph, mostly with an empty lane, on the inside. Just as we came to the 50 limit I overtook finally at about 55 mph. Guess what 2 policemen on board the Focus, they looked at me I looked at them , I passed and continued. They did decide to follow a BWM that overtook faster than I they both turned off.

This seemed very provocative by the Police and seemed to be enticing undertaking.

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Solution.

Ban cars!

....next you'll have us living in caves, hunting elk and gathering berries.....

Cheers

Don

quote:

If someone desperately trying to get into a queue of traffic is using their indicators, then I will let them in. If they don't, well they can wait there forever as far as I am concerned.

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How do we know whether you want to turn left or right, or even if you're just sitting there daydreaming?

Don't understand your confusion, if you are joining a queue of stationary traffic then you are approaching from the nearside and have no options about turning left or right - you seem to contradict yourself above.

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People like you who don't always signal tend to forget to signal when you really should. Are you one of those prats who don't signal just because you can't see another car (especially at night)? What about the poor pedestrian who is just about to cross the road at the junction you turn into without signalling. I care - because that pedestrian may well be me.

People like me - what is this place coming to! By the way where in the highway code does it stipulate signaling for the benefit of pedestrians. Many years ago on a Police advanced motorcyle course the instructor advised if there is no traffic to signal to then why signal?

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You're obviously one of those middle lane hogs

A bizarre extrapolation. My beef is with self righteous fools who think they owe the rest of us a lesson in lane awareness on the motorway when it is rammed at rush hour across all lanes and career in and out of all lanes when the safe thing to do is hold your lane until a sensible opportunity comes to take an inside lane.

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Oh, and just in case you ask - I practice the "alternate cars" rule when 2 lanes of slow-moving traffic are filtering into one

Unless of course traffic is stationary and they are not indicating, in which case fuck 'em!

quote:

back to watching the whole of the original Doctor Who (well, those you can actually get)

I rest my case - clown.

quote:

Originally posted by bornwina:
[QUOTE]
By the way where in the highway code does it stipulate signaling for the benefit of pedestrians.

I suggest you pick up a copy sometime & have a good read. The phrase "Other road users" will be used in this context. Roads are public rights of way, for the use of all.

Do I detect a hint of road rage ???

quote:

Originally posted by tonym:

quote:

Originally posted by bornwina:
[QUOTE]
By the way where in the highway code does it stipulate signaling for the benefit of pedestrians.

I suggest you pick up a copy sometime & have a good read. The phrase "Other road users" will be used in this context. Roads are public rights of way, for the use of all.

I took your advice and just had a look at the online version (I suggest you do likewise) and could see no definition of "other road users" or the need to signal to pedestrians, no doubt you will put me strait if it is in there. Also, see for example pulling out from a parked curbside position - "signal if necessary" - 'necessary' would seem to me to imply that the signal has value to other road users. Tell me, what do you think my intention is when joining a gridlocked motorway from a sliproad and what is the practical purpose using a flashing signal, what does it add that is of value?

As it happens the only time I don't signal is if it is unnecessary, for example joining a gridlocked motorway or lane changing on a deserted motorway although I do always look over my right shoulder.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr John William Martin:
Are you one of those prats who don't signal just because you can't see another car (especially at night)? What about the poor pedestrian who is just about to cross the road at the junction you turn into without signalling. I care - because that pedestrian may well be me.

IF IN DOUBT SIGNAL EVEN IF NO ONE IS THERE. Then you will always do it without having to think about it.

Some of those prats would be class 1 trained police riders (and drivers) and those those who have tried to improve their riding skills through training and the study of the Roadcraft handbooks.

Their advice can be condensed to "only give a signal when pedestrians or another road user might benefit".

The main benefit of this 'rule' is to make each indication decision the result of a full consideration of all relevant factors. This WILL usually suggest signalling but will also prompt awareness of those for whom the signal is being made.

I think the opportunities for 'correct' lane use in busy motorway conditions are sensibly limited by the balance of risk against the inconvenience you judge yourself to be to following traffic.

When traffic is sparser lane discipline should be followed.

I picked up a tip from an advance rider. Returning to the left hand lane may worth be delaying when approaching a junction (or hard shoulder hazard) with the predicted/observed likelihood of traffic joining the motorway.

When moving at motorway speeds I like to consider lane changes as early as sensible - to maintain speed, extend decision time and reduce stress.

'If an indicator flashes in the woods and there is no-one there to see it, will it still be arrested?'

quote:

I took your advice and just had a look at the online version (I suggest you do likewise) and could see no definition of "other road users" or the need to signal to pedestrians,

Do you need a definition,
actually printed, in front of you?

A road user will be 'someone who uses a road' Have I got that wrong?

And, as a pedestrian, I have sometimes been compelled to walk over the road, for similar reasons to the chicken. (Who is also a road user).

An indication of intention is at the very least simple courtesy, but in fact is necessary to allow other road users to understand your intention. That includes myself and the chicken.

Incidentally, if you drive with as much spleen venting as you post, I would rather you were the pedestrian and the chicken the driver.

quote:

Originally posted by bornwina:

quote:

Originally posted by tonym:

quote:

Originally posted by bornwina:
[QUOTE]
By the way where in the highway code does it stipulate signaling for the benefit of pedestrians.

I suggest you pick up a copy sometime & have a good read. The phrase "Other road users" will be used in this context. Roads are public rights of way, for the use of all.

I took your advice and just had a look at the online version (I suggest you do likewise)

I don't need to do this; I've always kept a copy of the actual booklet.

It says in section 103 - "Signals warn and inform other road users, including pedestrians (see 'Signals to other road users'), of your intended actions. You should always give clear signals in plenty of time, having checked it is not misleading to signal at that time. Use them to advise other road users before changing course or direction, stopping or moving off" I think that's pretty clear.

Taking Adam's point,the thing is if you get into the habit of indicating you might well indicate your intentions to no one now and then, but surely this is rather better than not indicating, and not realising someone's in your blind spot?

Around this neck of the woods, the locals drive around in cars where their indicator stalks have wilted away from lack of use, the indicator glasses have developed membranes across them. It's no fun trying to anticipate quite what they're going to do next.

Tony,

You are a tad unlucky there. Certainly to the north of you is some of the worst driving I've ever come across. Not speed but in terms of folk being impervious to conditions or what's around them.

Speed, of course the only thing today's police are interested in because you can use technology. The kind of traffic policing that used to be enforced involves a) effort and b) not making so much money.

Joe

quote:

Originally posted by tonym:
Taking Adam's point,...

I misexplained - rather the obverse.

If you maintain awareness of those to whom signals may be useful you are driving better.

It is this awareness that makes better drivers and would avoid your manoeuvre into the car passing in your blind spot. Which the blinking light, at this late stage, would not.

quote:

I don't need to do this; I've always kept a copy of the actual booklet.

It says in section 103 - "Signals warn and inform other road users, including pedestrians (see 'Signals to other road users'), of your intended actions. You should always give clear signals in plenty of time, having checked it is not misleading to signal at that time. Use them to advise other road users before changing course or direction, stopping or moving off" I think that's pretty clear.

Taking Adam's point,the thing is if you get into the habit of indicating you might well indicate your intentions to no one now and then, but surely this is rather better than not indicating, and not realising someone's in your blind spot?

Around this neck of the woods, the locals drive around in cars where their indicator stalks have wilted away from lack of use, the indicator glasses have developed membranes across them. It's no fun trying to anticipate quite what they're going to do next.

Completely agree, Tony. More than half of our local drivers seem not to lack working indicators.

Bornwina - of course I would let you filter in on a motorway whether you are signalling or not.
The ones I hate are those who on ordinary 2 lane roads assume I am psychic about their intentions, which you often can't tell from their road positioning. As Tony says, pedestrians (and cyclists) ARE other road users.

What do you have against Doctor Who? What I wish to watch on TV/DVD etc is nothing to do with you, nor would I presume to tell you what you should watch or do to occupy your leisure time.

Adam - agreed that you should always consider what the circumstances as regards indication, and I personally "always check my six" as our transatlantic cousins would say, before starting a manoeuvre. For me, indicating my proposed action is an automatic action, and hence is never neglected when according to you, I should indicate. Far better to indicate unnecessarily (provided the indication is not misleading) than to fail to indicate when it is.

I too will sometimes stay in the middle lane when approaching an on-ramp so as to avoid the slower moving traffic entering, but will move across as soon as safe to do so.

Thinking ahead and entering the nearside lane well ahead of your exit is also essential for safety, rather than that mad dash across from the outer lane carving up those inside to get to your exit at the last minute, which is something I see almost every time we go to Wimbledon to see our granddaughter, coming off the M25 at the A3

I always move over to the inside lane as soon as I've got past the previous junction, as the traffic in all 4 lanes is usually moving at about the same speed anyway. I've been carved up on that junction by the same driver at least 3 times in the last 6 months - he obviously uses that route regularly and at about the same time I do. Perhaps I'm one of the few people on that stretch leaving a half-way decent gap in front of me?

Bornwina - I really hate seeing an almost empty nearside lane when the 2 outer ones are chock-a-block with most driving too close to the vehicle in front, and that is when I might "undertake" - not to deliberately pass those to my right, but because I am within the speed limit, and they are crawling. Or would you like me to slow down to their speed. even though my lane is clear for a long way ahead?

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Bornwina - of course I would let you filter in on a motorway whether you are signalling or not.

I obviously misunderstood your earlier comment that I can wait till kingdom come if not indicating.

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Bornwina - I really hate seeing an almost empty nearside lane when the 2 outer ones are chock-a-block with most driving too close to the vehicle in front, and that is when I might "undertake" - not to deliberately pass those to my right, but because I am within the speed limit, and they are crawling. Or would you like me to slow down to their speed. even though my lane is clear for a long way ahead?

I understand the scenario you describe and the frustration of it but am surprised having read your comments about the dubious habits of others that you are prepared to undertake under these circumstances. Yes, slow down to their speed because in the UK it is almost always illegal to undertake therefore those drivers outside you will not be expecting to be undertaken and may pull across you anticipating the lane to be empty or worse someone with an axe to grind will do it deliberately - I've seen that happen.

Regards watching all of the original of Doctor Who, we should all feel free to watch what we like, please crack on.

quote:

I understand the scenario you describe and the frustration of it but am surprised having read your comments about the dubious habits of others that you are prepared to undertake under these circumstances. Yes, slow down to their speed because in the UK it is almost always illegal to undertake therefore those drivers outside you will not be expecting to be undertaken and may pull across you anticipating the lane to be empty or worse someone with an axe to grind will do it deliberately - I've seen that happen.

I know what you mean, but when I can see my exit clear ahead? I tend to apply what seems to be common sense, and carry on, but cautiously. Hopefully some of the selfish buggers on my right will indeed enter the inside lane which is relatively empty.

Anyway, let's get back to listing various driving irritations. After all, it's great to "let off steam" occasionally.

Supermarket car parks :
1. Too many drivers get out of their vehicles and promptly ignore all other cars.
2. People who stop to "chat" behind my car just as I am reversing out. They always seem annoyed when I get out of my car and ask them if they would just move aside while I reverse.
3. Drivers who seem incapable of parking small cars in large parking spaces. These tend to be women or very old men. I've often been tempted to knock on their car window and offer to park it for them, but resist it. A few weeks ago I came back to my car (Volvo S60) which was parked (very easily) smack in the middle of my slot to find a small car on each side about 6 inches from my car. I had to wait 30 minutes for the owner of one to return. Needless to say both offending cars were actually over the line and into my parking space, leaving a huge gap on their other side. Had the carpark been full I could have perhaps partially understood it, but no, it was almost empty. (p.s. my eldest daughter is one of the best drivers I know)
4. Taxi drivers who drive around these areas at fairly high speed.
5. Obviously able-bodied drivers parking in disabled slots (no, I don't have a disable badge) or people without kids parking in mother/baby slots. Especially irritating when we have one of our small grandkids with us.

Tony,

In my experience, the driving standards around the Ipswich area are awful. I'd rather drive in London. And where do I regularly see a rozzer with a handheld speed gun? Outside Wattisham airfield main gate. Bastards.

Tony

quote:

It says in section 103 - "Signals warn and inform other road users, including pedestrians (see 'Signals to other road users'), of your intended actions. You should always give clear signals in plenty of time, having checked it is not misleading to signal at that time. Use them to advise other road users before changing course or direction, stopping or moving off" I think that's pretty clear.

However section 159 reads as follows;

"159

Before moving off you should

* use all mirrors to check the road is clear
* look round to check the blind spots (the areas you are unable to see in the mirrors)
* signal if necessary before moving out
* look round for a final check

Move off only when it is safe to do so."

[QUOTE] Taking Adam's point,the thing is if you get into the habit of indicating you might well indicate your intentions to no one now and then, but surely this is rather better than not indicating, and not realising someone's in your blind spot? [/QUOTE

To mitigate against the blindspot thing whether indicating or not my advice, (and that of the highway code above), is to look over your right shoulder before moving - motorcyclists do this instinctively for obvious reasons.

I personally feel no need to create habits in my driving e.g it's early morning, no traffic on motorway, I exit at the desired junction without even thinking about indicating, there is no need. I daresay a psychologist would probably detail some automatic thought process going on in the background.

quote:

Obviously able-bodied drivers parking in disabled slots (no, I don't have a disable badge) or people without kids parking in mother/baby slots. Especially irritating when we have one of our small grandkids with us.

We seemed to manage without any one suppling special spaces for us when we had kids in the car. Are the people these days unable to get in and out of a car without special help?

As we didn't have those spaces when we had our kids we use them now to make up for it!

Those parent and baby slots might be a result of health/safety/chavs suing. They reduce the need for some poor parent with kiddies in tow having to cross traffic. As much as I like the sound of a toddler bouncing off my bumper, I can understand the supermakets not wanting to lose business.

Tony

quote:

Originally posted by Tony Lockhart:
Tony,

In my experience, the driving standards around the Ipswich area are awful. I'd rather drive in London. And where do I regularly see a rozzer with a handheld speed gun? Outside Wattisham airfield main gate. Bastards.

Tony