How illegal is it to rip in this way?
Posted by: Rockingdoc on 09 March 2009
I'm not even sure if one is actually permitted to record (rip) commercial CDs on an HDX for playback purposes?
If so, how about letting others "play" your CDs on their HDX, and what if it rips it at the same time?
And how about if there was a pool of CDs or files eg. a private library, shared by HDX owners?
Has anyone clarified where the line is drawn?
Posted on: 09 March 2009 by Rockingdoc
I've thought of another permutation. What if you rip your CDs to the HDX and then sell them to a friend who rips them to his HDX, and then sells them etc.? Breaking any rules?
Posted on: 09 March 2009 by seagull
I believe that, technically, it is all still illegal (especially your afterthought!)
I don't think the copyright laws ever caught up with cassettes and walkmen let alone the complexities of digital copies of works covered by copyright.
Posted on: 09 March 2009 by gary1 (US)
These issues have been addressed by Naim.
If you purchase music you can copy/rip the CD for your own personal use. You can play a friend's CD on your HDX and that is legal. Ripping it to your HDX if you did not buy it is illegal.
There is an abundance of copyright law regarding ripping/copying CDs etc... on the internet.
Posted on: 09 March 2009 by AV@naim
quote:
Originally posted by Rockingdoc:
I've thought of another permutation. What if you rip your CDs to the HDX and then sell them to a friend who rips them to his HDX, and then sells them etc.? Breaking any rules?
That's what the Delete Albums function is for...
Posted on: 09 March 2009 by aht
Unfortunately, "Delete Albums" is not available on the front panel or the web browser interface, as far as I can tell.
Posted on: 10 March 2009 by themrock
In Germany (i dont know, if its the same for the rest of the EU) the rules are:
- only for private persons
- making no profit
- no hacking of copy- protection-mechanism
then you can make private copies for yourself and can give a copy to friendsfor free.
Also you can keep your copies, even if you have sold the cd.
I have asked a friend of mine, who is a lawyer specialized in media-law.
The question above buying the cd, copy it, selling it, copying it ,selling etc. i dont know.
Posted on: 10 March 2009 by themrock
quote:
Originally posted by themrock:
In Germany (i dont know, if its the same for the rest of the EU) the rules are:
- only for private persons
- making no profit
- no hacking of copy- protection-mechanism
then you can make private copies for yourself and can give a copy to a close friend for free.
Also you can keep your copies, even if you have sold the cd.
I have asked a friend of mine, who is a lawyer specialized in media-law.
The question above buying the cd, copy it, selling it, copying it ,selling etc. i dont know.
Posted on: 10 March 2009 by ft-o8
When you sell the Original CD, than you must destroy the copy.
Posted on: 10 March 2009 by themrock
quote:
When you sell the Original CD, than you must destroy the copy
No, you can keep it.
Because you are german, hier auf die schnelle.
"Die Privatkopieschranke erlaubt es auch, ein Original zu kaufen, es zu kopieren und das Original wieder zu verkaufen"
http://irights.info/index.php?id=288Posted on: 10 March 2009 by garyi
In the uk if you sell your cd you have sold the rights to that music so you should delete it. There is no way round it no grey area its pretty straight forward.
Posted on: 10 March 2009 by js
quote:
Originally posted by aht:
Unfortunately, "Delete Albums" is not available on the front panel or the web browser interface, as far as I can tell.
It's in the interface.
Posted on: 10 March 2009 by aht
js--
Could you tell me where the delete album function is? All I've found is the ability to delete a playlist. The Desktop Client will delete albums, but that requires Windoze, which many people don't have.
Posted on: 10 March 2009 by pcstockton
Firstly, I imagine the legality of such issues varies from country to country and even from state to state (US).
At least here in the US, you can make personal copies of ANY album you own, for your OWN use.
This is EXACTLY why I use EAC to rip discs. I can then use the "cue file" to make a BIT PERFECT, exact copy of the factory disc for use in the car etc....
All gaps between tracks, pre-track gap information and track levels PERFECTLY copied.
Why ruin my Pixies MFSL CD ($45) in the car when I can make a perfect copy for 10 cents and 5 minutes time.
I have not looked into how re-sale affects this.
Posted on: 14 March 2009 by Eric Barry
Here's my question. What do you have the rights to. To the sound on the disk, or to the music. As far as I can tell, copyright is about the music, not the particular instance of it. For instance, you cannot take a commercial disk, add some processing, and sell it as your own.
The relevance is this. Suppose that you buy a "remastered" cd. Your friend has the older version, and you like it better. Can you rip it because you already own a license for the music despite the fact that you do not own the disk itself.
Or likewise, say I bought an album on vinyl way back when. Can I copy a cd copy from the library to use on my ipod without violating copyright? I own the right to play the music, right?
Posted on: 14 March 2009 by u5227470736789439
I know that there is the case where the re-issue is newly copyrighted, and the copyrighting date is given as being the date of issue of the new remastered release, rather than the original release.
In this way LPs over fifty years old and issued in the UK may be legally copied in the UK as they are, after fifty years, out of copyright, but subsequent releases of the same recording are still in copyright if they are newly created remasterings, published as such, and less than fifty years old.
In this way, for example, the Regis recording company is able to transfer from original early fifties LPs the Furtwangler led recording of Wagner's Tristan and Isolde made by EMI in 1952 [and issued a year later on EMI HMV Mono LPs] to modern CDs, without copyright challenge, for their own profit rather than EMI's.
Regis could not use the later remastered LPs from the sixties, seventies, or eighties, nor even use the EMI CD release as a basis for their own legal copy as the EMI CDs were from a new 1980s remastering published as such.
Thus it seems you buy the right to the sound rather than the music, in practice, at least in the UK.
BUT, copyright law is not only a mess, but is different in different countries.
I do believe, though do not know for a certain fact, that issued recordings have seventy-five years of copyright protection in the USA. I may well be wrong in this.
Really if you are concerned about breaking the law in any way, then you should seek competent professional legal advice in the territory or state in which you live, as international advice on such a subject is very likely to be wrong in many cases ...
ATB from George
Posted on: 15 March 2009 by pcstockton
quote:
Originally posted by munch:
Its a nightmare.
If you own the LP or CD you can rip it to your home or homes system.
You can get away with a copy to play in your car.
What you cant do.Is play any cd or dvd for public use.
You cant sell a copy or copy it for public use or.
Its in the small print on every cd book or case and comes up on the screen when you play a dvd
Rental cds and dvds if you copy them you are breaking the law.
End of.
Stupid bloody question by some one that knows the answer in the first place.
Unless you pay ASCAAP or whomever. I have plenty of friends who own bars and restaurants and play music for their patrons. They either use a service that pays those fees for them, or pay the fees directly themselves.
If they have live music it gets complicated, but easily taken care of.
To ignore such laws can bankrupt a business....
For home/personal use, the laws are fuzzy and not to be taken too seriously. Bottom line, if it feels illegal, or "wrong", if probably is.
If you speed a little in your car or ignore the "right turn only" sign, it is not a major transgression....
Hit someone with your car and leave the scene? That is different. Drunk driving? Everyone feels this is a just law that ought to be enforced.
Same goes for copyright laws.
If you burn a CD for a friend, or loan a book to your Mother, i wouldn't worry about it.
Selling CDs online (bootlegging), or plaigarising someone work and claiming it is as your own, etc.... are things you KNOW are wrong while you are doing it. And most of us wouldn't have a problem with those persons being punished.
Posted on: 15 March 2009 by Bob McC
Posted on: 15 March 2009 by ewemon
[QUOTE]Originally posted by munch:
You can get away with a copy to play in your car.
QUOTE]
Technically Stu if you have say friends in the car and they are listening to a cd then under the law it is classed as public performance.
However the PRS know that it would be difficult to enforce that is why for years they have been trying to get the govt to put a levy charge on all cd-r's/cd'-rw's. So far the Govt have refused.
I have more than a good few fights with PRS over the years. The most recent about 3 weeks ago.
Posted on: 16 March 2009 by aht
quote:
Originally posted by pcstockton:
If you ... ignore the "right turn only" sign, it is not a major transgression....
Not where I live!
Posted on: 16 March 2009 by Adam Meredith
quote:
Originally posted by pcstockton:
If you burn a CD for a friend, or loan a book to your Mother, I wouldn't worry about it.
These are, in copyright terms, two very different actions.
Posted on: 16 March 2009 by Rockingdoc
quote:
Originally posted by munch:
Stupid bloody question by some one that knows the answer in the first place.
No I didn't, and I'm still not clear if I can rip CDs from the Public Library when I own the original on vinyl (or even my "car" CDRs recorded from my vinyl). I confess to this, 'cos I'm usually too lazy to record from the vinyl, so please don't send round the rozzers.
Posted on: 16 March 2009 by Guido Fawkes
quote:
Originally posted by Adam Meredith:
quote:
Originally posted by pcstockton:
If you burn a CD for a friend, or loan a book to your Mother, I wouldn't worry about it.
These are, in copyright terms, two very different actions.
I've just asked my mum to send me back the
Mary Shelly and
Bram Stoker books I lent her - phew that was close; I didn't know it was against the law.
Host (John Cleese): First this evening we have Mr Norman Voles of Gravesend who claims he wrote all Shakespeare's works. Mr Voles, I understand you claim that you wrote all those plays normally attributed to Shakespeare?
Voles (Michael Palin): That is correct. I wrote all his plays and my wife and I wrote his sonnets.
Host: Mr Voles, these plays are known to have been performed in the early 17th century. How old are you, Mr Voles?
Voles: 43.
Host: Well, how is it possible for you to have written plays performed over 300 years before you were born?
Voles: Ah well. This is where my claim falls to the ground.
Host: Ah!
Voles: There's no possible way of answering that argument, I'm afraid. I was only hoping you would not make that particular point, but I can see you're more than a match for me!
Host: Mr Voles, thank you very much for coming along.
Voles: My pleasure.Posted on: 16 March 2009 by garyi
You can lend the book I should imagine. You mum just cannot photo copy it. Seems pretty clear to me.
Similarly if I leant a CD to a friend, provided he did not copy it and I did not play a copy whilst he had it, I am pretty sure plod won't be knocking my door down.
