Building a dedicated mains circuit
Posted by: BarryD on 08 November 2005
Since we are to have a new kitchen, I believe a new consumer unit will be required to replace our old fuse box and the opportunity will arise to install a dedicated circuit for my Hi-Fi.
I can tell from searching the forum that several members have done this. Any guidance, or pointers to useful sources would be gratefully received.
I have a Nait5i, CD5x and FC2, and no great ambitions (or funds for that matter) to upgrade anything but the mains at the moment.
Thanks, Barry
I can tell from searching the forum that several members have done this. Any guidance, or pointers to useful sources would be gratefully received.
I have a Nait5i, CD5x and FC2, and no great ambitions (or funds for that matter) to upgrade anything but the mains at the moment.
Thanks, Barry
Posted on: 08 November 2005 by andy c
This thread will take about an hour to be deleted due to the AUP on this forum. Have a look over on the pink fish forum - pleany of info on this over there.
Posted on: 08 November 2005 by BarryD
Thanks, will do.
AUP?
AUP?
Posted on: 08 November 2005 by andy c
All user policy - basically becasue of legal ramifications re safety etc Naim don't like mains alterations being discussed on here...
Posted on: 08 November 2005 by BarryD
Thanks again, apologies for any upset.
Posted on: 08 November 2005 by andy c
you are not upsetting me - no worries. I just didn't want you to post here and then watch it dissapear without knowing why the moderators are doign so.
Posted on: 08 November 2005 by NaimThatTune
8 minutes and counting...
Posted on: 08 November 2005 by hungryhalibut
Barry
There should not be a problem with the post, but Adam may move it to the Padded Cell. At the same time as getting the new consumer unit, get a second small one for the hifi. Do not daisy chain it off the first, but get the power split between the meter and the two new consumer units. Use a 45 amp breaker in the hifi consumer unit (Memera make good CUs). Then get an unbroken run of 10mm cable, straight into the back of an unswitched Crabtree socket. Then get a Grahams Hydra, replace its MK plug with a Crabtree, plug it in and off you go.
You can apparently secure further improvements by installing a separate earth spike, though I've not bothered with this.
It's well worth it for the £200 or so it will cost, and will ensure that you get the best out of any future upgrades. It's amazing how many people run really expensive systems off the ring main (and I'll admit to doing so before realising the error of my ways).
Nigel
There should not be a problem with the post, but Adam may move it to the Padded Cell. At the same time as getting the new consumer unit, get a second small one for the hifi. Do not daisy chain it off the first, but get the power split between the meter and the two new consumer units. Use a 45 amp breaker in the hifi consumer unit (Memera make good CUs). Then get an unbroken run of 10mm cable, straight into the back of an unswitched Crabtree socket. Then get a Grahams Hydra, replace its MK plug with a Crabtree, plug it in and off you go.
You can apparently secure further improvements by installing a separate earth spike, though I've not bothered with this.
It's well worth it for the £200 or so it will cost, and will ensure that you get the best out of any future upgrades. It's amazing how many people run really expensive systems off the ring main (and I'll admit to doing so before realising the error of my ways).
Nigel
Posted on: 08 November 2005 by NaimThatTune
Hi All & Nigel(HH)
Good advice - can't object to that! The thread most certainly will get moved to the Padded Cell
6 minutes....
Rich.
Good advice - can't object to that! The thread most certainly will get moved to the Padded Cell
6 minutes....
Rich.
Posted on: 08 November 2005 by CJSP
Nigel
Do you mean a 10mm sq 3 core cable for the mains supply to the socket?
Additionally what if you require more than one socket? Do you daisy chain single unswitched sockets or put in a further separate cable for each socket with its own breaker on the CU (radial design)?
Note all electrical mods like this have to be inspected or to be installed by a certified electrical technician (partly a trade barrier/job creation issue (EU influence) and also safety). I was lucky when I rewired my old house as one of my Chartered Electrical Engineers inspected and certified it.
Charlie
Do you mean a 10mm sq 3 core cable for the mains supply to the socket?
Additionally what if you require more than one socket? Do you daisy chain single unswitched sockets or put in a further separate cable for each socket with its own breaker on the CU (radial design)?
Note all electrical mods like this have to be inspected or to be installed by a certified electrical technician (partly a trade barrier/job creation issue (EU influence) and also safety). I was lucky when I rewired my old house as one of my Chartered Electrical Engineers inspected and certified it.
Charlie
Posted on: 08 November 2005 by NaimThatTune
Times up!
oops! 2 minutes over, even... The thread's still here!?
[shuffles off to make some supper and listen to tunes]
R.
oops! 2 minutes over, even... The thread's still here!?
[shuffles off to make some supper and listen to tunes]
R.
Posted on: 08 November 2005 by Taylormade
I'm a little confused why there would be legal ramifications regarding this discussion anyhow. If Naim was specifically instructing someone to install a dedicated circuit and provided instructions on how to do so, then I could see there being a problem.
If I choose to have a licensed electrician perform the work, the legal ramifications rest solely on the electrician.
Perhaps the UK legal system is even more screwed up than ours even though I doubt it.
If I choose to have a licensed electrician perform the work, the legal ramifications rest solely on the electrician.
Perhaps the UK legal system is even more screwed up than ours even though I doubt it.
Posted on: 08 November 2005 by hungryhalibut
quote:Do you mean a 10mm sq 3 core cable for the mains supply to the socket?
Additionally what if you require more than one socket? Do you daisy chain single unswitched sockets or put in a further separate cable for each socket with its own breaker on the CU (radial design)?
Charlie
Yes, that's right - a 10mm sq cable, which is supposedly better than the smaller 6mm version. Some people run multiple spurs to multiple sockets (one each), while others use a single spur and a Hydra or Powerigel to enable a number of units to be plugged in. Given that either can have lots of heads I don't see the need for multiple spurs, and based on opinions gathered here and elsewhere the balance seems to be in favour of a single spur.
As with all electrical work it must be done by a qualified electrician, or if not must be inspected and certified by the local authority building control. You only have to look at the mad and often downright dangerous things that some people do to realise the common sense of this.
Nigel
Posted on: 08 November 2005 by hungryhalibut
quote:I'm a little confused why there would be legal ramifications regarding this discussion anyhow. If Naim was specifically instructing someone to install a dedicated circuit and provided instructions on how to do so, then I could see there being a problem.
If I choose to have a licensed electrician perform the work, the legal ramifications rest solely on the electrician.
Perhaps the UK legal system is even more screwed up than ours even though I doubt it.
The discussion here, any my little contribution to it, is within Naim's guidelines. People in the past have made suggestions that contravene electrical regulations, and if these were to appear on Naim's site they would be complicit in supporting them. Hence their guidelines.
Nigel
Posted on: 08 November 2005 by CJSP
Taylormade
This is very offlist but may be useful info for all.
From what I now understand of the law here it has now been changed to ensure all electical mods (except a spur from an existing socket) have to undertaken by a certified electrical technician and inspected and approved. If this is not done and you have say, a house fire, and the wiring was at fault the insurance company may well not pay out. I expect there are websites to properly expand on this, say the Institution of Electrical Engineers www dot iee dot com
When I last looked the design and installation of things electrical in domestic properties is governed by the 16th Edition of IEE guidance, this may now be the 17th Edition given the change in legislation. The 16th Ed is what I followed and exceeded in re-wiring my old property and this was not always followed by electrical contractors (e.g wires on beams in shallow recesses directly below floor boards).
Charlie
This is very offlist but may be useful info for all.
From what I now understand of the law here it has now been changed to ensure all electical mods (except a spur from an existing socket) have to undertaken by a certified electrical technician and inspected and approved. If this is not done and you have say, a house fire, and the wiring was at fault the insurance company may well not pay out. I expect there are websites to properly expand on this, say the Institution of Electrical Engineers www dot iee dot com
When I last looked the design and installation of things electrical in domestic properties is governed by the 16th Edition of IEE guidance, this may now be the 17th Edition given the change in legislation. The 16th Ed is what I followed and exceeded in re-wiring my old property and this was not always followed by electrical contractors (e.g wires on beams in shallow recesses directly below floor boards).
Charlie
Posted on: 08 November 2005 by Taylormade
quote:Originally posted by CJSP:
Taylormade
This is very offlist but may be useful info for all.
From what I now understand of the law here it has now been changed to ensure all electical mods (except a spur from an existing socket) have to undertaken by a certified electrical technician and inspected and approved. If this is not done and you have say, a house fire, and the wiring was at fault the insurance company may well not pay out. I expect there are websites to properly expand on this, say the Institution of Electrical Engineers www dot iee dot com
When I last looked the design and installation of things electrical in domestic properties is governed by the 16th Edition of IEE guidance, this may now be the 17th Edition given the change in legislation. The 16th Ed is what I followed and exceeded in re-wiring my old property and this was not always followed by electrical contractors (e.g wires on beams in shallow recesses directly below floor boards).
Charlie
Charlie,
This type of electrical work should be done by a certified electrician and I understand the legal ramifications regarding your homeowner's insurance not covering a claim if something isn't done to code. That wasn't what I was questioning in my post.
My question was, why would Naim have any responsibility regarding this issue considering Naim isn't instructing anyone to do anything?
Posted on: 08 November 2005 by NaimThatTune
Dear Taylormade/All,
This is best left for Adam to explain in full, meantime, here's my ginger and purposefully slightly vague explanation for the sensitivity regarding this kind of thread.
Folk previously commented (on other threads that were shut down and removed) that it was sonically beneficial to remove various 'protection devices' which are found both inside Naim kit and in the power circuits used to supply Naim kit. This means that the safety standards to which Naim design and assemble their rather fine items of hifi, and the power systems in people's homes would become dangerously unprotected.
Naim didn't want to be seen to support such unwise practise, even implicitly via allowing the existence of such threads on their forum, and so all such threads are moved to the Padded Cell and closely monitored in case somebody suggests doing something dangerous and contradictory to existing regulations.
I think that's a very reasonable stance from the good folk at Naim - prevention being better than cure etc.
Hope that helped...
Rich.
This is best left for Adam to explain in full, meantime, here's my ginger and purposefully slightly vague explanation for the sensitivity regarding this kind of thread.
Folk previously commented (on other threads that were shut down and removed) that it was sonically beneficial to remove various 'protection devices' which are found both inside Naim kit and in the power circuits used to supply Naim kit. This means that the safety standards to which Naim design and assemble their rather fine items of hifi, and the power systems in people's homes would become dangerously unprotected.
Naim didn't want to be seen to support such unwise practise, even implicitly via allowing the existence of such threads on their forum, and so all such threads are moved to the Padded Cell and closely monitored in case somebody suggests doing something dangerous and contradictory to existing regulations.
I think that's a very reasonable stance from the good folk at Naim - prevention being better than cure etc.
Hope that helped...
Rich.
Posted on: 08 November 2005 by Taylormade
quote:Originally posted by NaimThatTune:
Dear Taylormade/All,
This is best left for Adam to explain in full, meantime, here's my ginger and purposefully slightly vague explanation for the sensitivity regarding this kind of thread.
Folk previously commented (on other threads that were shut down and removed) that it was sonically beneficial to remove various 'protection devices' which are found both inside Naim kit and in the power circuits used to supply Naim kit. This means that the safety standards to which Naim design and assemble their rather fine items of hifi, and the power systems in people's homes would become dangerously unprotected.
Naim didn't want to be seen to support such unwise practise, even implicitly via allowing the existence of such threads on their forum, and so all such threads are moved to the Padded Cell and closely monitored in case somebody suggests doing something dangerous and contradictory to existing regulations.
I think that's a very reasonable stance from the good folk at Naim - prevention being better than cure etc.
Hope that helped...
Rich.
Thanks for the explanation Rich. Now it's crystal clear to me why this topic is a sensitive issue. I never knew someone advocated modifying Naim equipment and the removal of safe guards. That's why I was puzzled why anyone would care about having an electrician install a dedicated circuit for audio gear.
Posted on: 08 November 2005 by u5227470736789439
Dear Friends,
There is something about this in the Manuals, but I cannot quite remember what. But I bet the company would suggest exactly what is both legal and ideal. There, I said it. It's funny but whilst debate on shades of opinion is fascinating, I hope no one here would be offended if I said that if I were considering a new socket fot the gramophone I'd email Naim...
All the best from Fredrik
There is something about this in the Manuals, but I cannot quite remember what. But I bet the company would suggest exactly what is both legal and ideal. There, I said it. It's funny but whilst debate on shades of opinion is fascinating, I hope no one here would be offended if I said that if I were considering a new socket fot the gramophone I'd email Naim...
All the best from Fredrik
Posted on: 09 November 2005 by hungryhalibut
quote:But I bet the company would suggest exactly what is both legal and ideal
Fredrik
You are absolutely right, and that's what I did before installing mine.
Nigel
Posted on: 09 November 2005 by Derek Wright
But the company would suggest what was a reasonable upgrade not the ultimate no holds barred upgrade involving 25mm or more cable (yet still remaining legal), balanced power transformer etc etc.
See Naim's view as the minimum not the maximum, perhaps as a best value for money upgrade so as to not scare away the beginner or possible beginner.
We all know how best value for money concepts doe not apply in Hifi and in parts of this forum.
See Naim's view as the minimum not the maximum, perhaps as a best value for money upgrade so as to not scare away the beginner or possible beginner.
We all know how best value for money concepts doe not apply in Hifi and in parts of this forum.
Posted on: 11 November 2005 by Jagdeep
Mate, this is electricity, don't mess with it unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing.
Jag
Jag