CDX & CDR

Christian

In theory you should get a perfect copy every time, however, experience has shown that you can help matters somewhat.

1. Only buy top notch blank CDs, I use Kodak.
2. Wash the donor disc, it only takes 1 minute but makes a big difference.
3. The Most important thing is to duplicate at the lowest speed your PC is capable of. I use single speed. My son uses 4 times and the results are dire.

If you do the above, you will get a good result, which is undetectable from the original.

Regards

Mick

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Originally posted by Mick Parry:

3. The Most important thing is to duplicate at the lowest speed your PC is capable of. I use single speed. My son uses 4 times and the results are dire.

Mick

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I've done some duplications at 8x. My CD player reads the VTOC only if I insist enough times and if ity starts playing it'll keep going but I can't change tracks, Have you had these symptoms ?

Peter

"A CD copy though is done digitally so should be a perfect reproduction".

None that I ever heard. Computers are good at getting all the one's and zero's off but are not great at looking after the 'spaces' inbetween.

To my ears there is a smearing within the decay of notes, especially higher frequency complex instruments. Overall the sound loses body and gets to sound even more digitally processed I.M.O.

Hi I've just gone through almost the same situation.Just visit your dealer and dem the following intro,credo,allae and possibly sbl's then decide how much you want to spend. I px'd my elite's and bought allae's .I would like to thank Brian and Dave for all their help past,present and future(Audio counsel Oldham).
Mike

Just because a copy is done digitally is no guarantee of good results.

It depends upon the discs and the writer (and compatibility betwixt the two). It also depends upon the players susceptibility to the variations present on the disc.

The disc buring process is a complex one, in which chemical dyes are changing state, very rapidly, in response to an electro-mechanical system, built, in a PC, to a very low cost, run from noisy PSU's etc. It's very bit different to a stamped master, contaning physical changes, as opposed to chemical ones.

CD writers add jitter to the written disc, and this can be seen when looking at the eye pattern retrieved from the disc.

I've never copied a CD that is indistiguishable from the original, sonically, but I can read the data from the copied disc, and it compares exactly, bit for bit.

The problems is CD replay is a real-time process where time is a critical factor to producing the end result.

Andy.

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Originally posted by Mick Parry:

3. The Most important thing is to duplicate at the lowest speed your PC is capable of. I use single speed. My son uses 4 times and the results are dire.

Mick
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..this may or may not be true depending on the discs and CD writer being used. In fact, some writers are exactly the other way round. Both my Teac and CDR in my Mac work best at the highest speeds - single speed even causes drop outs.

Regards

Stephen

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None that I ever heard. Computers are good at getting all the one's and zero's off but are not great at looking after the 'spaces' inbetween.

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Er...there are no 'spaces between' ones and noughts. Sound differences come from errors in conversion (jitter, dropout) and AD/DA conversions if any.

Or did I miss a smiley there?



Stephen

I trust the ability to play CD-R's is not a deciding factor on whether or not you buy a CDX.

We're talking about one of the best CD players in the world here. And you're going to feed it a diet of CD-R's? Get real, buy the real deal. At least that way you can be sure it's not the source material thats responsible for any lack of musical enjoyment you may suffer in future years.

Ed wrote:

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Yes, the CDX will play CDRs. I made a CDR of my 180g pressing of Jennifer Warnes' 'Famous blue raincoat' album using a top spec LP12 (Armageddon/Aro/Clavis/Prefix) and a TEAC CD recorder and when played back on the CDX, it sounded just like the TEAC. There was a 'sonic signature' on the disc. Gave up on the idea there and then.

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Errr, source first, Ed. I respectfully (and somewhat wagg-ishly) suggest that it might all have sounded better if you weren't experimenting with boring-farty audiophile test records! Still, could be worse - could be "The Hunter". What next - Stereophile's music reviews? Source First lad, source first!

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

I seem to have problems making compilations and especially covers for the discs - what pc cd burners do you use, and what software - I have an hp burner and eazy-cd 4 and making a copy of a compilation ends up with the last few seconds of some tracks disappearing, as well as some tracks - but in a random fashion...
I certainly can tell the differences when played on my cdx!!!
Cheers,

steve

CD-R copies from a PC CD-R don't sound anything like as good as the original CD.

I'm told that great results are available from the pro-level machines.

cheers, Martin

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D-R copies from a PC CD-R don't sound anything like as good as the original CD!

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Well, I made dozens of PC burned copies with TDK CDR's. Imho, they sound fine on my CDX and most of the time I find it very hard to hear a difference.

And let's be honest, it's quite tempting to burn a copy on a CDR when the original is 10(!) times more expensive! (while the difference in playback quality isn't 10times that bad)

regards,
Alco

This CDR thing is getting like stands! It has been discussed and advised to death.

Given a decent blank (TDK?), cd-writer (Plextor?), software (EA audiocopy), and a cd player that doesn't get sniffy with cdrs (Linn?) there is no difference that matters between the copy and the original. Period, no argument. Micks advice about slow copying doesn't apply anymore, the power of todays lasers means that burning at 1x is likely to result in a worse, not better copy.

I use copies as samplers to see if like the music and as compilations for the car, but if I like a disc I will buy an original for various reasons - but not cos they will sound better!

"All systems are perfectly designed to get the results they get."

There are no differences IMHO if things are done properly:
CD to CD transfer, (PC, i mean, with 2 CD devices: a player and a burner), no hard-disk dumping, enough memory, good quality CDR, whatever the speed your devices can support, but the trick is here, your system (hardware and software) must support the speed . I've got better results with a 8* player than a 32*, burning at 4*. it's a matter of try, no benchmark, AFAIK, can tell you if it works at a specific speed.
The differences i experiment are in the long term. CDR don't keep the data integrity very long. After one year it doesn't sound as well as the newly burned CDR. And a bit to bit comparaison gives differences.

There are no spaces between 1 and 0, it is a differential encoding process.

All Naim CDPs play CDR, all old models included.

Emmanuel

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Originally posted by Jez Quigley:
Given a decent blank (TDK?), cd-writer (Plextor?), software (EA audiocopy), and a cd player that doesn't get sniffy with cdrs (Linn?) there is no difference that matters between the copy and the original.

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Ah, but I'm not using such a perfect CD player.

The jitter is higher on CD-Rs. For instance, see this press release for a Yamaha CD-RW drive which can reduce these issues somewhat. I'm still dithering about getting one myself (looks like it'll have to go on hold until we've replaced the freezer).

cheers, Martin

Martin, it might be worth trying different brands of blanks, I've noticed that ones with a blue cast (after writing) won't play on my mothers Technics CDP. Also anyone using Easy CD shouldn't IMHO, it's the pits (tee hee). Nero or EA copy have given me excellent results.

"All systems are perfectly designed to get the results they get."

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Originally posted by Jez Quigley:
Martin, it might be worth trying different brands of blanks, I've noticed that ones with a blue cast (after writing) won't play on my mothers Technics CDP.

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I've tried dozens of different types of blanks over the years. My first recorder was a 2x SCSI model on a P90.

Same results with everything since.

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Also anyone using Easy CD shouldn't IMHO, it's the pits (tee hee). Nero or EA copy have given me excellent results.

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Do you mean it's hard to use, or that it compromises audio quality?

cheers, Martin