A Point of View - Living Forever - Joan Bakewell

To listen to the link you have till Sunday, 12th December ...

As Queen said in Highlander OST, Who Want's to Live Forever?

Thanks for the link, Joan is also good to listen too.

An interesting link, thanks George. I'm not sure she gets to the heart of the matter, as most of her objections to the idea of eternal life are about the difficulties of *managing* the consequences (e.g. the impact on the Earth's finite resources). Suppose those difficulties *could* be managed away (e.g. interplanetary travel & terra-forming) - would that make eternal life a good thing? Put another way, it sounds like she thinks living forever would be a fine if it weren't for a few practical problems we can't solve right now.

Coming at it from another angle, Many Christians believe in some form of life after death where, presumably resource constraints and other practical difficulties don't apply. Is this kind of eternal life necessarily a good thing?

I think the answer is no. The fact that life ends (however bitter a pill it is to swallow) is what gives it meaning. I could go on at length about this but I'll leave that thought hanging for now.

Regards
Nigel

Swift had a few words to say about living forever. Unfortunately I can't find the "obligatory" link to the relevant part of Gulliver's Travels so a trip to the library will be necessary if you want to find out more about those born with the "red spot" between the eyes.

The picture he painted of eternal life crippled by old age wasn't attractive.

Cheers

Don

Don perhaps this could help?


Swift satire.

You don't want eternal life but eternal youth - or at least to be able to stop ageing at some point of your choosing.

Actually, what we need to learn is how to age with grace, however long is a reasonable span.

Both my parents died in their sixtiess, so less than the three score years and ten, and today is my 49th!

But I have no special wish to live a huge number of years in retirement. The only reason I can think of to live longer is to keep a connection with younger friends ...

Live life today for the pleasure today, and may the devil take the hindmost on tomorrow ...

ATB from George

quote:

Don perhaps this could help?

perfect. Thanks

Cheers

Don

quote:

Originally posted by droodzilla:
Many Christians believe in some form of life after death where, presumably resource constraints and other practical difficulties don't apply. Is this kind of eternal life necessarily a good thing?

The orthodox Christian view of 'eternity' is not time - or this life - without end, but rather of a continuous eternal present moment (i.e. eternity exists outside the notion of time) in which the whole of creation is in perfect relationship/harmony with God and each other.

There is a non-religious view that past and future do not exist, only a continuously refreshing "now".

quote:

past and future do not exist, only a continuously refreshing "now"

What do you think this means?

There is only the present - no past, no future.

quote:

Originally posted by Derry:
There is only the present -

I think you misunderstand the truer meaning of Christmas.

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Meredith:

quote:

Originally posted by Derry:
There is only the present -

I think you misunderstand the truer meaning of Christmas.

Not in the Platonic sense...

Peter Hammill was rather eloquent in his lyric on the subject of eternal life, 'Still Life'.

"Citadel reverberates to a thousand voices, now dumb:
what have we become? What have we chosen to be?
Now, all history is reduced to the syllables of our name -
nothing can ever be the same now the Immortals are here.
At the time, it seemed a reasonable course
to harness all the force of life without the threat of death,
but soon we found
that boredom and inertia are not negative,
but all the law we know
and dead are Will and words like survival.

Arrival at immunity from all age, all fear and all end....
Why do I pretend? Our essence is distilled
and all familiar taste is now drained
and though purity is maintained it leaves us sterile,
living through the millions of years,
a laugh as close as any tear....
Living, if you claim that all that entails is
breathing, eating, defecating, screwing, drinking,
spewing, sleeping, sinking ever down and down
and ultimately passing away time
which no longer has any meaning.

Take away the threat of death
and all you're left with is a round of make-believe;
marshal every sullen breath
and though you're ultimately bored by endless ecstasy
that's still the ring by which you hope to be engaged
to marry the girl who will give you forever -
that's crazy, and plainly
it simply is not enough.

What is the dullest and bluntest of pains,
such that my eyes never close without feeling it there?
What abject despair demands an end to all things of infinity?
If we have gained, how do we now meet the cost?
What have we bargained, and what have we lost?
What have we relinquished, never even knowing it was there?

What chance now of holding fast the line,
defying death and time
when everything we had is gone?
Everything we laboured for and favoured more
than earthly things reveals the hollow ring
of false hope and of false deliverance.

But now the nuptial bed is made,
the dowry has been paid;
the toothless, haggard features of Eternity
now welcome me between the sheets
to couple with her withered body - my wife.

Hers forever,
hers forever,
hers forever
in still life."