Best sounding digital version of 'Kind Of Blue'?

There are a lot of people who think that the original Japanese version with a cat no 35DP is the best but it isn't tape speed corrected. I think that is maybe Milesmiles preferred version but only he can tell you. Personally I haven't heard a copy of it.

My favourite version is the Hybrid SACD Japanese disc with a cat no Sony SICP 10083 but it is pretty rare now so isn't going to be cheap. Nice and smooth with no harshness edge to Miles's trumpet.

I find the current legacy remaster a little on the bright side and louder on my system but a lot of folk also like it.

I have an earlier Japanese copy, the SICP 10083 and the current legacy mastering.

quote:

Originally posted by ewemon:
There are a lot of people who think that the original Japanese version with a cat no 35DP is the best but it isn't tape speed corrected. I think that is maybe Milesmiles preferred version but only he can tell you.

It sure is.

'Gold' Columbia CK 64403, issued 1992.

When KOB was first issued on CD, the original session tapes for March 2nd sessions for Side One could not be found, so second generation tapes were used.

This 'gold' version was the first digital issue to have correct speed and master session tapes. I think it sounds better, (less brittle, more open), than the current Legacy version and the original CD issue, though it doesn't contain the extra retake. Never compared it to the box set.

You can probably obtain a copy S/H.

I just saw there are plenty to choose from.

Up till March 26 2010, 54 CD versions of Kind Of Blue have been released.

(source: kind-of-blue.de )

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aleg

quote:

Originally posted by graham halliwell:
'Gold' Columbia CK 64403, issued 1992.

When KOB was first issued on CD, the original session tapes for March 2nd sessions for Side One could not be found, so second generation tapes were used.

This 'gold' version was the first digital issue to have correct speed and master session tapes. I think it sounds better, (less brittle, more open), than the current Legacy version and the original CD issue, though it doesn't contain the extra retake. Never compared it to the box set.

You can probably obtain a copy S/H.

Graham

Acoording to the kind-of-blue.de website the 'Gold' Columbia CK 64403 was issued in 1994.

The first speed corrected release was done in 1992 but was the CK 52861 Columbia / Legacy, Mastersound, LongBox, Gold-CD in Limited Edition.

Which is the one you prefered, the CK 64403 1994 release or the actual 1992 CK 52861 release?

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aleg

Aleg

the spine of my CD is CK 64403 BUT looking at the CD stamp I have CK52861 date stamped 6/94!!

So it looks like I have the 1992 edition CK 52861 (the sleeve notes would support this) but as a 1994 release (as indicated by the spine).

No wonder I am confused.

It sounds great, I've only compared it to the original CD release and the late 90's Legacy edition. I know some are saying the 2009 Anniversary edition is preferable, but I remain skeptical.

FWIW I have an early UK vinyl in excellent condition, sounds wonderful, but I can't live with the speed/pitch problem.

If you can play SACD grab one of the Japan SACDs-I have the SACD only (wonderful) but the hybrid is well (if not better) regarded in some posts.

quote:

Originally posted by graham halliwell:
Aleg
...
It sounds great, I've only compared it to the original CD release and the late 90's Legacy edition. I know some are saying the 2009 Anniversary edition is preferable, but I remain skeptical.
...

Graham

I very much prefer the CK 52861 version to the Anniversary edition. I find the sound on the CK 52861 much better controled and less sharp than on the Anniversary edition.

So this one would be my recommendation.

@Brilliant
Unfortunately I don't have SACD player so I've never actually heared one of those.

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aleg

quote:

Originally posted by Brilliant:
If you can play SACD grab one of the Japan SACDs-I have the SACD only (wonderful) but the hybrid is well (if not better) regarded in some posts.

It is the Hybrid SACD I have and prefer as I don't have a SACD player.

quote:

Originally posted by ewemon:

quote:

Originally posted by Brilliant:
If you can play SACD grab one of the Japan SACDs-I have the SACD only (wonderful) but the hybrid is well (if not better) regarded in some posts.

It is the Hybrid SACD I have and prefer as I don't have a SACD player.

Interesting - it is possible that they used the DSD mastering for the CD layer rather than the same year (1997) SBM re-master CD CK 64935?? Their booklet info is not always clear on this type of info.

I had the original CK, still have the 1997 SBM, and added the Legacy Edn (for the extra tracks) but I must say that the SACD is my go to for listening pleasure.

Here's a link to some if not almost all the cd editions of Kind of Blue.

http://www.kind-of-blue.de/sei...en/miles_kob_box.htm

Here is a quote re the current 50th anniversary edition.

"As Sony’s Senior Mastering Engineer, Mark Wilder typically spends his days remixing tracks both classic and modern out of Sony’s Battery Mastering Studios on West 54th in Manhattan (formerly the Record Plant). Wilder has more experience with Kind of Blue than almost any other living person on the planet except Jimmy Cobb. Wilder not only remastered the quintessential Kind of Blue mix from the original 1959 3-track tapes, he discovered a playbackspeed flaw that remained on all Kind of Blue pressings until 1992. At that time, Wilder was revisiting the 3- track safety reels from the original 1959 session for the Sony Mastersound reissue of Kind of Blue, and he noticed the three songs on Side A were a bit sharp in pitch compared to the same tunes on the backup reels. Apparently, the main 3-track deck was turning slower than normal during the March 2 session, and when these tracks were played on a machine running at the proper speed, the slightly faster playback produced the higher pitch. This is why the CDs and LPs made from that reel were sharp. Wilder surmised that the main 3-track had received some maintenance by the time of the April 22 session, and therefore the pieces on Side B were tracked at the standard speed. Realizing that the backup reels had never been played, Wilder decided to use them to remaster Kind of Blue for Columbia’s 1992 Mastersound SBM Gold CD release, thus ensuring both “sides” of the classic album were playing at their proper pitches.

“For the 1992 Mastersound disc where we did the speed correction, I used a Studer 807 3-track and a Neve 8108 console to mix direct to a customized Sony PCM 3402 DASH reelto- reel digital 2-track during that period of time when Sony had its proprietary 20-bit converter,” explains Wilder. “For the final assembly, we used the U-Matic 1630 digital format tape. Basically, you recorded 16 bit/44.1kHz to a 3/4-inch videotape. These were all modified machines, and the connections were SDIF 2 instead of AES. For its time, it was great. Editing was very linear. Unlike a workstation, it was hard to bounce around in time— you pretty much had to assemble the master from start to end.

“In 1997, when we wanted to address Kind of Blue again, I had a GML custom line mixer, and a basically pristine, all-tube Presto 3-track— possibly the R-II [1956] or Model 825 [1957]—which had a unique sound. The GML console was a true step up—it was by far more transparent than the Neve. I did a flat transfer—no EQ or compression—from the Presto and GML to an analog Ampex ATR- 102 with Dolby SR running at 15ips. Printing to analog allowed me to move those original mixes into the future for any technology change that may come along, and these are now the reference standard mixes of Kind of Blue.

“We wanted the 50th Anniversary reissue to be special in some way, so I went with a different tape machine—the Studer A80—and, instead of using the newer Dolby SR 363 units, I went with some standalone SR cards that fit into the old Dolby 360 racks. We used Grado cables to connect everything, and, keeping in mind that we wanted a different interpretation of the original tape, I ran it through an EAR 825 Mastering EQ completely flat. I just wanted to get that Tim de Paravicini [a renowned high-end analog engineer who designed the EAR 825] sound without fiddling with the tonal balance—which I didn’t want to change. If you compare the 50th Anniversary CD with the 1997 release, you’ll find the 50th Anniversary disc a little warmer, and more inviting. It’s not that the ’97 version is abrasive—it’s simply 11 years later. I am at a different place as a listener, and as an engineer, and my interpretation was different then than now.”

Still, retaining the original audio character of what Wilder considers “one of the best recordings Fred Plaut ever did” was a paramount goal. He also wanted to scrupulously document the sounds of the vintage tools likely used to craft Kind of Blue at 30th Street Studio in 1959—a custom Columbia console, Neumann M49 mics, Telefunken or custom-made mic preamps, Ampex 300 or 350 tape machines, Scotch 190 tape, and Altec Lansing Voice of the Theater monitors.

“You have three horns and a rhythm section together in a huge room, and Fred Plaut—the original engineer—placed the mics with a sense of where he wanted the performers to be in the speakers,” says Wilder. “The left, center, and right balance was done before it hit the 3- track tape. It’s mostly a simple, static, ‘all faders up’ mix—even though Fred was doing what was known as a live mix. He was aware of the solos, where the heads were, and who was playing what—turning the mic preamps up or down as needed. A perfect example is “Freddie Freeloader,” where Fred is a little late on John Coltrane’s entrance. The saxophone sounds very echoey, and then, all of a sudden, he’s there. Fred was a little slow on the fader.”

Mark Wilder has publicy stated that no new digital transfer were done by him from the masters (apart from the 50th) after 97. The tapes were only given out once to Bernie Grundman for the Classic Records album.

The Japanese SACD hybrids were supposedly (not proven) mastered in 2006 possibly by someone in Japan or one of the other two engineers listed on the 97 disc. No one is sure.

thanks for that ewemon.

"Editing was very linear. Unlike a workstation, it was hard to bounce around in time — you pretty much had to assemble the master from start to end"

well, maybe there is something to be said for this approach, and may explain why I find the '92 SBM satisfying. They were edited in real time; a very musical way of going about things.

"he noticed the three songs on Side A were a bit sharp in pitch compared to the same tunes on the backup reels"

to be fair the pitch problem between sides A and B had been obsereved many years before '92; but nobody knew why or how it had come about.

its not just KOB that has suffered from pitch transfer problems. Anyone ever compared original vinyl Plugged Nickel to CD? The vinyl,(mastered in and for Japan initially), not only has slightly differnt pitch to the CD, but also has added reverb, possibly to make the venue/acoustic sound larger than it was, and maybe also to enhance some of Miles's own playing (he'd just had major dental work, according to biographer Ian Carr). In this insatnce the CD (box set) seems like a much more faithful document (to my mind at least).

will have to have a listen to the anniversary edition KOB. What a nice problem to have!!