New Discoveries in Beethoven?

quote:

Originally posted by soundsreal:
It did make me laugh, though, I was driving earlier and had the classical station on, and next piece here comes a Beethoven sonata....I'm cursed!

you get bored too easily. if you get bored with Beethoven sonatas, you're probably not hearing everything that's being played :-)

touche, no, just have many other musical interests....I think even Ludwig van would listen to something else after awhile...one of the great lines in "Room with a View", Miss Honeychurch seems a bit peevish. I'd chalk it up to too much Beethoven.

quote:

Originally posted by soundsreal:
touche, no, just have many other musical interests....I think even Ludwig van would listen to something else after awhile...one of the great lines in "Room with a View", Miss Honeychurch seems a bit peevish. I'd chalk it up to too much Beethoven.

I was out of line with that anyway, it's no different than my temporary Tchaikovsky block.

Or my fifteen year Tchaikowski block! But the truly good and kind eventually does regain its significance.

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by Todd A:
I don't like everything and feel no need to try to like everything. .... There's no objective truth when it comes to musical performance.

You have of course got your unlimited right to say, that Lewis bores you. But problems arise when you say that he is boring and even more when you say say that he is a mediocre pianist. The latter is a generalisation which is much broader than your own personal statement, and you also put it in a way which makes it look like an objective statement.

Lewis is far from my favorite pianist, but as I am a non-professional I would never be qualified to call him mediocre.

and what would you cultural mavens of the keys say to Gina Bachauer(sp)?

You got me there!

Wot is a cultural maven?

And 'oo is Gina B- [spelling]?

ATB from George

George, you mean you don't know? Maybe her career never crossed the pond...

Honest, guv! I know nothing ...

Well, I should wikipedia her, but shooting from the hip, she was born in Athens, studied under Cortot and Rachmaninoff, and had a concert career going till WWII came, then she got sidelined for a while, and resumed some years later. I saw her when I was young, doing Grieg's pc, and, one of the highlights of my concert experiences ever, for an encore she did the last movement of Pictures and brought down the house...one of those moments I'll never forget. I know she recorded for Mercury Living Presence at one point...that's all I know without cheating...
she had big fat hands...

and, back to Clara H, what about her Scarlatti
Eleven Sonatas on Westminster? I've got the Speakers Corner reissue...

I am only a boy from the vilage as they say in Poland of stupid pesants!

But I had a long introduction to Haskil.

I imagine she would play Skarlati peerlessly!

She was not too bad at Beethoven and superb in Haydn! Her carrer was not helped by being Jewish in Central Europe in the mid century.

One of her great msuical friends was Otto Klemperer.

I have one live collaboration with the Guerzenich Orchestra in Koln [1956] of them in Mozart's No 27 in B Flat. Amazing subliminal support from the accompaniment for a sunblime artist. [On Music and Arts, USA label].

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by soundsreal:
and what would you cultural mavens of the keys say to Gina Bachauer(sp)?

When I was a young music student, she was the darling for Bach among all the piano majors.

I just remember she had this very commanding stage presence. And for her encore, they closed the red velvet curtains, which are no longer there, behind her, quite dramatic.

quote:

Originally posted by pe-zulu:
You have of course got your unlimited right to say, that Lewis bores you. But problems arise when you say that he is boring and even more when you say say that he is a mediocre pianist. The latter is a generalisation

"The latter" isn't true either. As I say, I have a feeling Todd was reacting against some rather overblown reviews in an English CD comic rather than trying to be objective. I can't imagine anyone who has listened to PL's Beethoven recordings would call them "mediocre" even though it is certainly true that there are (some) better ones.

But there it is and you sometimes change your mind. I listened to various sonatas from Kovacevich's cycle last night, which when I first listened to it I pretty much wrote off as too frantic and relentless. While these impressions haven't entirely gone away, I missed much that is deeply insightful and beautiful. I shall be listening again. He's quite right in (what I presume is) his premise that the "subtle" approach rather in vogue at the moment is probably not the way Beethoven conceived these masterpieces. He was a fiery character, a radical, a visionary. He used to break pianos during concerts.

Haskil - I only know her through her Mozart recordings with Artur Grumiaux, but it has made me want to know more!

EW

Did anyone here get Kovacevich's recent re-recording of LvB's mighty Diabelli Variations? I have had in its many reincarnations, and loved, his 40 year-old Philips set and was hugely looking forward to the new one (I even planted a question for Andrew MacGregor to ask SK when he was a guest on CD Review a few months back). But I was put off buying it by a deferred BBC Radio 3 relay of a Kovacevich's recent Royal Festival Hall performance, which sounded lumpy and devoid of "swing". Was I wrong?

And to suggest a truly great performance of Bach's Solo Sonatas and Partitas (see Mike's comment above), I'd like to propose two: Grumiaux's 60s Philips set and Milstein's 70s remakes for DGG.

(First posting from my new home in Brighton!)

Graham

quote:

Originally posted by graham55:
Did anyone here get Kovacevich's recent re-recording of LvB's mighty Diabelli Variations? I have had in its many reincarnations, and loved, his 40 year-old Philips set..

Recently got his Philips set (because of the concertos and sonatas and certainly not the Diabolic variations which never did much for me) but have not listened to it yet.

quote:

And to suggest a truly great performance of Bach's Solo Sonatas and Partitas (see Mike's comment above), I'd like to propose two: Grumiaux's 60s Philips set and Milstein's 70s remakes for DGG.

Agree completely. These two are my favored modern instrument recordings (along with Susanne Lautenbacher´s Vox-recording).

At my wife's insistence, I ordered the 2008 Bach WTC by Angela Hewitt a minute ago.

That's two sets on the way.

This can be an expensive hobby :-)

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:
At my wife's insistence, I ordered the 2008 Bach WTC by Angela Hewitt a minute ago.

That's two sets on the way.

This can be an expensive hobby :-)

Yes, expensive. Particulary when you waste your money on piano arrangements.

quote:

At my wife's insistence, I ordered the 2008 Bach WTC by Angela Hewitt a minute ago.

...couldn't wait for my report eh mike?...Well I expect it will be pretty good ( not here yet) even for arrangements

Mind you it will have to be good to live up to the Walcha Harpsichord set I mentioned earlier. I have just been listening to some of it again to get a stake in the ground for Angelas' arrival.

regards
Geoff

The Liszt/Beethoven Symphonies for piano came about an hour ago. I put the Eroica on to begin with, and listened to the first movement. When the first movement ended, I skipped directly to the final movement.

Sadly, for me, Beethoven's orchestra doesn't fit in a keyboard. I really wanted to like it, but it just won't work for me.

But I'm glad to have tried it. I have never heard a Liszt transcription before.

Dear Mike,

Years ago the BBC broadcast recordings they did in their studios - long before the commercial recorders got to it - of these transcriptions.

I agree that the deaf Beethoven so understood the sounds of the orchestra [and of course the piano as well] that he would never have caste the music for keyboard, but don't give up onn them.

They are great transcriptions [IMO], and worthy of listening to more than just once.

Be in a curious mood and give them all a go as the mood strikes.

Liszt brings somethings out with startling clarity which the variegated colours of the orchestra conceal in a manner, and once noted these newly comprehended relationships will inform your appreciation of what Beethoven was driving at with his most sublime use of orchestral colour and alarmingly inevitable musical logic!

Don't let go of this too easily. It is very important, IMVHO.

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
Be in a curious mood and give them all a go as the mood strikes.

Liszt brings somethings out with startling clarity which the variegated colours of the orchestra conceal in a manner, and once noted these newly comprehended relationships will inform your appreciation of what Beethoven was driving at with his most sublime use of orchestral colour and alarmingly inevitable musical logic!

Don't let go of this too easily. It is very important, IMVHO.

ATB from George

OK George, I'll give it more of a go this coming weekend. But I don't expect a change of heart.

In the 1st movement of the Eroica, when the textures get thick, the resonance of the piano buries the themes. And the one-handed piano "rolls" don't suit the character of the music.

My wife tells me she's had that same experience with other Liszt transcriptions heard live at the International Piano Competition here in New Orleans, which concluded last week.

Don't kick me then, but I love the Liszt opera transcriptions. I love opera, and I love the piano, and the two go very well together. I might have mentioned this before, but I love my old house, and I play these pieces and imagine them being played here. And they might have been--all my relatives played back then. Though I doubt they played the Beethoven transciptions.

I like Liszt, full stop. Always have.

OK, I'm working on it. But I'm not hopeful. Sometimes, it just may not be your cup of tea.

But I lied earlier on; I have a disk of Liszt Opera paraphrases on Phillips by Michael Campinella (sp) on the black stuff that we both absloutely love.