Les Troyens Reconsidered

I have a friend (yes I do) who, like you, is totally into Les Troyens - I have heard about its excellence for about twenty years. Problem is I'm can't get used to Berlioz.

However, what struck me most about your post (apart from the familiar Toddist collecting) is you like the way the Dutoit is recorded. It's that spacious hall atmosphere isn't it? And the occasional spotlighted solo? You like that? I really dislike that big swooshy soundstage; I've had tons of Dutoit / Montreal recordings (Ravel, Tchaikovsky &c) and passed 'em on to folks who don't mind the way the music is recorded.

So I guess it takes all kinds.

Herman

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Originally posted by herm:

Problem is I'm can't get used to Berlioz.

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That's too bad.

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Originally posted by herm:

However, what struck me most about your post is you like the way the Dutoit is recorded. It's that spacious hall atmosphere isn't it? And the occasional spotlighted solo? You like that?

Herman

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Yes, there is a sense of spaciousness and the occasional spot-lighting, but neither is too bothersome. (The spot-lighting is very discreet compared to some other Decca fare.) The clarity and warmth of the recording is what got me.

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Originally posted by JarrettH:

Any comments on [Moses und Aron]? Has anyone heard it before?

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Of course. I, too love this opera, so that makes us two of perhaps 30-40 worldwide, I think. I have the Boulez recording on Sony, though he also recorded it more recently for DG. (Which one do you have?) I do admit to rather enjoying everything about the Sony set. The singing is excellent and the conducting and orchestral playing are of the very highest order.

I have also heard Solti's recording on Decca, and all I can say is that this recording is best avoided. The singing quality varies, with Moses miscast (I can't remember the singer right now). Solti seems intent on making the music sound angular and "difficult," whereas Boulez actually lets it sound musical, if you will.

For me, Moses und Aron ranks almost as highly as that greatest dodecaphonic masterpiece, Lulu.

Having just browsed through the 2003 Proms programme, I see that Colin Davis and the LSO are doing a semi staged performance of Les Troyens on the 25th August.

David

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Originally posted by Tom Alves:
And unlike Herm I adore Berlioz.

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Mind you I wasn't suggesting there's anything wrong with Berlioz! It's just there's music that doesn't work for you - sometimes later it does. (As a teen I hated Brahms. Later he became my favorite composer.) I'm willing to be banned for this. Just put up a vote.

Herman

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Originally posted by herm:

I'm willing to be banned for this. Just put up a vote.

Herman

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A ban does not seem entirely out of line.

Tom, - just seeing Part 1 is I think, bound not to seem as if the thing hangs together. When we've seen Part 2 [I'm going on Thurs next week, how about you?] then the epic scale should be revealed [although not properly until next year, when they'll be doing it in one night [I'll be taking a cushion and sandwiches]]. At the moment, it's like a partially revealed colossus. The music was magnificent though, - and it's the originality of Berlioz that continually amazes.

As a concept, the idea of Troy / America as a nation overcome by hubris and prey to terrorism was pretty sound I thought [and nothing if not timely], and all the JFK & Jackie O stuff came off really well. Wasn't so keen on the horse though, - a realistic great big dobbin of a thing [sorry, Dobbin] looked a bit out of place - if it were me, I'd have just had the legs moving across, with the bulk of the horse invisible. The other bit that didn't do it for me was the last scene, with the women stuck at the top of a skyscraper as the terrorists approach. Great idea, lousy excecution - there were so many people in such a tiny space, and all the jostling made them look as if they were stuck in a lift. Still, the ghost of Hector in the Eames chair was a real spine tingler.

Part 2 will have a completely different design team to create the difference between Troy and Carthage - I'll be interested to see how that works out.

throb

[Rather doubt that Trojans & Rosenkavalier had the same cast - now that would be peculiar!]

Tom,

Yes, the suit wasn't flattering, and the Tourette's bit didn't help. Though I suppose Cassandra should be a bit odd, given everything. Granted, her relationship wasn't clearly stated, which didn't help the context. Grat singing, though - she really carried it.

throb

I have the '69 recording loaned from a friend that has no TT. I really like the last half of the opera. Some serious flaws in it (how do women choke themselves to death?) but would like to see that grotto scene done on stage, the notes were hilarious. One night of love then he turns on her and walks away. What a duffus and she has every right to be angry. Rome couldn't have been all that great to leave the love of your life. Ah isn't opera grand!

But, I do love that big Berlioz sound and yes he was in my thoughts a 20th C composer. Herm can sit back squarely in the 19th with Brahms. I like the 20th with all the new thoughts and rule breaking. Certainly grabs your attention.

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Originally posted by Ross Blackman:

[Y]et if in fact [Berlioz] had been composing in, say 1890 or 1920, I think we'd find his music rather dull.

Ross

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I agree with you on this, and indeed I rarely listen to Berlioz other than for Les Troyens or Beatrice et Benedict. Even the Requiem and Symphonie Fantastique seem to drag on in most performances, the Requiem especially. If you don't like that LSO set, feel free to send it to me! (I haven't bought it yet since the library always has a copy of it.)

Oh, hello? I was going to be banned for saying I wasn't listening to Berlioz big time, and suddenly it turns out no one is that hot about most of his music.

Brahms, BTW, was deemed the progressive by no less than Schönberg, Wolf. Anyways, at this long a distance from the actual events I don't see the use of these hipness races. Bach (J.S.) was a conservative composer in his time, yet he's the one we rate highest among his contemporaries, and indeed among all composers.

Herman

Les Troyens Pt 2 [Trojans at Carthage] ENO - Thurs

Well, what an evening..... After the initial shock of finding Dido revealed as the manageress of the Carthaginian branch of Gap [entire cast in toning chinos & combats, teamed with variously shaded blue washed-out linen shirts], I spent 3 1/2 hours in varying states of gobsmackedness. I had reservations about some elements of the production [pyre by B&Q], and wasn't entirely convinced by Susan Parry's Dido [found it hard to be both regal and swoony, so settled on the former], but the quality of the music was a revelation. There really wasn't a dull moment, and it seemed to be over all too quickly.

Todd, I can quite see why you think it one of the greatest of all operas, and am inclined to agree. I've got the first Davis / Philips recording which I have to confess I have yet to listen to, it being part of the complete operas box which I bought without realising it came sans libretto. I don't mind that with something I know, but the thought of attempting Les Troyens without one had put me off a bit. Now I know what's going on, it will be rarely out of my drawer. I don't think I'm up to another complete version, but can undoubtedly run to the mid-price Dutoit highlights disc.

Tom, - you've got a treat in store!

throb

After almost eight months without a new version of Les Troyens, I finally tracked down an affordable set of Kubelik’s 1960 La Scala recording on Myto. At Naxos-price I figured I should hurry and buy it. I’m exceedingly glad I did. This I Troiani is sung in Italian, and there are about 40 minutes of cuts, but on the whole, this is a great addition to my collection.

First I’ll describe those cuts. What a shame that even a conductor of Kubelik’s stature either had to or chose to make major cuts. At least the work was staged. There are a number of small cuts along with some bigger cuts. In Act I, there is no interrogation of Sinon by Priam, which is not too great a cut, but a few of Cassandra’s warnings are missed as a result. Act III sees a number of cuts, including the entire section with the builders, sailors, and farmers parading for Dido, and much of the choral adulation for the queen is cut. What a shame. Act IV is butchered. The opening hunt sequence and the following exchange between Anna and Narbal is cut, and the rest of the act is jumbled. There is no first duet between Dido and Aeneas, making their later duets a little less intense, and it is difficult to follow. The act ends with an odd orchestral interlude that appears to be a mish-mash of the cut orchestral pieces.

Enough of what is wrong with the performance, and on to what is right. Kubelik handles the still unruly piece deftly. The tempi are brisk, the phrasing emphatic when necessary, more relaxed when suitable. His dramatic sense equals all of the best stage minded conductors, and his timing is impeccable. Kubelik’s conducting here is further proof – as if it were needed – of his greatness. The singers are provided an outstanding musical backdrop to do their thing.

The three lead characters are all very well done, with one great performance. Nell Rankin’s Cassandra is powerfully sung, and she can carry notes well, but there is something missing. Where is the foreboding near the beginning? Where is the hysteria at the end of the first act before all the Trojan women kill themselves? Alas, while the voice is good, the acting suffers. Deborah Voigt under Dutoit is the Cassandra for me.

Giuletta Simionato’s Dido fares better. She has an attractive, suitably regal (read: grand) sounding voice, and she commands the stage well enough. She does not generate quite enough heat with Aeneas in their love duet, and her anger at the end seems more annoyance than rage, but she gets the message across nicely. None of the Dido’s I’ve heard have been fully satisfying. If ever her voice is up for the challenge, perhaps Angela Gheorgiu could do it. Perhaps she’ll try? I hope so.

Now for the great performance: Mario Del Monaco as Aeneas. His voice is powerful and perfectly controlled, and he conveys the conflicted loyalties of the Trojan leader to great effect. His arias are superb (and one receives an appropriately long applause), and his half of the duets with Simionato are worth hearing. His Aeneas stands up to Jon Vickers quite nicely.

All told it was an outstanding performance of the greatest opera of the 1850s. The audience was not enthusiastic enough, though. The applause is largely polite, except for the apparent love for some of the singers’ arias. Oh well, they didn’t know what they had. One problem I did have was that the Italian translation used differs markedly from the 1994 Decca translation, so following everything was a bit tricky at times. The sound of the set is fully acceptable, with only the occasional drop-outs, level changes, pitch problems, and variable hiss that one would expect from a radio broadcast of this vintage. If ever some premium reissue house gets a hold of the master tapes and gives it a full sonic brushing up, I’ll buy it. The skimpy notes state that Kubelik staged the work in 1957-58 at Covent Garden (in English!), so I’m hoping that some long-lost tape will appear at some point. Looks like I’ll have to go for the Beecham set in the mean time. Anyway, highly recommended for fans of this opera.


"The universe is change, life is opinion." Marcus Aurelius, Meditations