Nordost Blue Heaven

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Originally posted by David Greenwood:
OK here goes - whilst at the Manchester Hi-Fi show I was chatting to a guy who was 'really' advocating using Nordost Blue Heaven interconnects between Naim CDs and pre-amps and the same Nordost speaker cable. Have any of you tried this combination and moved away from Naim cables. My system is currently: CDX2 + XPS, 202 Hi Cap 200 and back to Intro IIs after trying other speakers - all on Mana racks. So is it worth a try changing Naim cables?

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David
since 7 Years i.m using flatline nordost (the one with the golden colour) between loudspeakers and amp and between all my components and the amp. At the moment i have only nait 3 with cambridge cd. But works also great as a Speaker cable to my kans mk 2.

for me flatline nordost is the best affordable and neutral cable i ever had.

Not affordable but maybe better imo FM acoustic cable.

What i noticed in my experiences:flatline is not sounding good for PHONocable,and it did not sound good inside a loudspeaker after the passive crossover.D ont ask me why i,m no technician.
only technical thing i know is that the voltage through Flatline Nordost moves faster than in the most other cables if you compare specifications. And it,s a nightmare that you do not get bass out of such athin cable.
really worth to give a try.
O.J.

David,

Give it a try for yourself!

The general feeling is that Naim cables and interconnects are best for a Naim sistem. Anything else just seems to kill the Naims timing.

However you might find that you prefer the presentation of the Nordost cable. Try and find a dealer that will let you try some at home and tell us what you think.


Regards


NB

I've tried Nordost. I suggest you don't.

Ruined the timing and the stage and made everything really 'hi-fi'.

Take the money and spend it on music. Or alcohol. Or both.

Buying alternative cables for Naim systems is the hifi equivalent of setting fire to your money on the lawn and watching it burn.

You can probably tell I'm not from the 'Give-It-A-Go-And-See-For-Yourself' school of thought.

Joe90

Dont hold back there joe

Hell. I was being really restrained!!!

I must add that Nordost is really good cable.
Just not in a Naim system.
In my opinion of course.

Joe90

Quote:-

must add that Nordost is really good cable.
Just not in a Naim system.
In my opinion of course.
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Its all a mater of choice, David may prefer it (doubt it as I tend to agree with you joe)


Regards

NB

Ps Hi-fi + love the stuff especially with Naim kit!

I had tried on several occasions the blue heaven interconnect between my cds2 and 52. Initially I thought "wow" the better highs and the firmer and deeper bass. I thought I would never go back to the naim cable. Well, what do you know, the music was gone. Couldn`t get into it until I put back the naim cable. I still own the nordost so I have tried this on several occasions, always the same reaction. I am sticking with the naim cable. Anyone want to buy my nordost?! david

HiFi+ Magazine tend towards mindless boffinry, so there opinions should be weighed with this in mind.

In the end, Naim Audio can be relied upon to make the very best sound from Naim Audio equipment. Of this I have no doubt, magazines notwithstanding.

Joe90

The voltage moves faster?
Oh dear, they're serving the wrong cool-aid.
The velocity factor (I'm assuming that's what they mean) of the transmission line depends on the reactive components. If they've reduced them, then good, and all things being equal the vf will be closer to the ideal of 1. But using velocity factor as a sales gimmic is just sad. Shame on them.
This implies that the lengths of left and right channel cables (signal and speaker) must be carefully matched.
The speed of light (and propagation through conductors) is 3x10e8 m/s. Applying the velocity factor of .95 that they publish makes it 2.85x10e8 m/sec.
I'll leave the math to anyone interested, but a phase delay of 1/2 degree at 20kHz would require a difference of about 20 meters between right and left.
It may be nice cable, but I'm put off by such hype as "it sounds better because it's faster". That's nuts.
David

Geez David, you know stuff...

Joe90

I'm with Joe 90, I vote for alcohol and music. Let Naim do the wiring and be done with it.
They could be "baffling us with bull s**t" and charging 1000 or 10,000 times the material cost. At least their cables are priced "reasonably" compared to some of this crazy hi-end stuff.
David

Standard (grey) Naim versus SPM:

I've got both - the SPM is DININ as is the (grey) Naim cable. With my non-Naim cd player (with DIN output) the SPM is ahead of the standard Naim lead - better bass, timing and transparency - though I feel the standard Naim lead is more cohesive and I have to say that the jury is currently out - tipped in balance of the more expensive cable but not by as much as you'd think.

John

PS. The SPM DININ is for sale if you're interested - a considerably better cable than Red Dawn which is in turn considerably better than Blue Heaven, and I'm selling it for a little less than a DININ Red Dawn.

I try blueheaven from nap 180 to proac 1.5 and imho naca5 are faaaaarrrrrr better (imho of course).
With nordost music become dry and sound too hard, less natural, bass have light weight and the hi range is acid.
No idea with signal cable, but to me naca 5 it's a must with naim amp, better more then 5 m.
Simone

[This message was edited by Simo on WEDNESDAY 11 February 2004 at 09:42.]

gday mate
i am using flatline gold as my speaker cable,from my dealers recommendation as it sounds fuller than the standard nac 5(better through my Av2 anyway - for home theatre use). he also said that the interconnects were not as good value for money as the naim supplied interconnect(obviously)but was quite prepared to lend me any of the interconnects from nordost to try.I am considering trying this, as a $500 cable might be a better upgrade than a $3000 hicap. at least to my wallet in the short term!demo will solve it though.i say try anything once and if it stuffs up then you know not to do it again,and if it doesnt cost you anything to try....

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to me naca 5 it's a must with naim amp

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It certainly isn't expensive and it does seem to have a certain synergy, which you'd expect.

DNM Reson works well, and many speak highly of Townshend Isolda DCT, but to be honest I like the fact that A5 is cheap and relatively rabbit proof.

I am beginning to wonder whether what cable one uses should be dictated by the component upstream, i.e. the one that will be pushing sound through the wire. That would support the fact that A5 seems to be fairly universal with Naim power amps (as the amps are upstream) but the interconnects not necessarily being the best option for connecting cd players - though I can only think of my own CD player when I try to name any other DIN-equipped cd players other than Naim.

John

John

I haven't heard a 5i and I don't want to be offensive, but it's not the output, which will allow achieving better results with non-naim cables.

It's the electronics. It gives the famous naim's PRAT and brings the music to life.

With the 5i series naim goes for a bigger market share. Many hi-fi fans don't know about the PRAT thing and could start with their favorite cables. The 5i series for naim are like the A class for Mercedes. It's still a Mercedes, but affordable for more people.

Regards

Emil

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Originally posted by NaimDropper:
The voltage moves faster?
Oh dear, they're serving the wrong cool-aid.
The velocity factor (I'm assuming that's what they mean) of the transmission line depends on the reactive components. If they've reduced them, then good, and all things being equal the vf will be closer to the ideal of 1. But using velocity factor as a sales gimmic is just sad. Shame on them.
This implies that the lengths of left and right channel cables (signal and speaker) must be carefully matched.
The speed of light (and propagation through conductors) is 3x10e8 m/s. Applying the velocity factor of .95 that they publish makes it 2.85x10e8 m/sec.
I'll leave the math to anyone interested, but a phase delay of 1/2 degree at 20kHz would require a difference of about 20 meters between right and left.
It may be nice cable, but I'm put off by such hype as "it sounds better because it's faster". That's nuts.
David

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David
with any hifi cable you shoud have the same lenght on both channels.
other manufacturers talk also about velocity Factor in cables.(i think clearaudio did so)
As being no Technician i cant tell you if this is abenefit or not. But as we know Thousands of different Amps most of us in this forum go
for naim amps.And there are a lot of manufactorers with higher specifications of watts,or Bandwith and so on.This does not mean
their products sound better and vice versa it does not mean they sound worse than naim.
if one of us including Naim enterprise would know all,i mean really all technical factors that are really important
than it would be easy to build the best gear
for ever.but every company uses their own experience for evolution and innovation in their products.And as a matter of fact : if you
have success on your way you will stay on your way,does not depend on knowing exactly why you were successful.And every Enterprise that has exorbitant good specifications will use them as an instrument of marketing.

Denon amplifiers offer you for instance always alot of Watts for your Money.

things i noticed:an Nordost interconnect does not change the sound in any way, no matter You use a pair of one meter or a pair
of 7meters.

the other thing is: a really clever idea in which symple way nordost does their bananas out of one piece (i mean there is not a banana with a spring,the banana is the spring)

W B T does this also but in a very complicating
and not so genious way. and therefore very expensive

i was once told by a sales rep that because of the way it was made it made it possible for the signal to travel faster than light!!! he was adamant it could! and got offended when told to "fuck off"!

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because of the way it was made it made it possible for the signal to travel faster than light!!!

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Wow, these guys are on for a nobel prize then!!

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Wow, these guys are on for a nobel prize then!!

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At least! Timetravels also sring to mind. Hear your favourite records b4 they were made??

o.j.-
I agree, cables should be the same length but not due to the velocity factor!
As I was saying, 20m makes a 1 part in 720 time smear at 20kHz... and less as you go further down the audio spectrum.
The cables should be the same length so the output of both channels drive the same cable load so you won't have a L-R difference due to that.
Cables are like potato chips or french fries (US bias here).
There's quite a bit of hype and advertising, endorsements from famous people, they're offered as an upgrade from what you've got now. They make the sellers very rich because they consist only of potatos, salt and grease and they can charge nearly 100 times the material cost. Consumers can't get enough.
Cables are simply metal conductors surrounded by plastic insulators. Arranged, styled and colored to make them appealing (and sometimes to improve their electrical performance). "Audiophiles" can't get enough.
Time to go on a diet and eat (and listen) sensibly.
I appreciate that development and tooling costs add to the price of any cable. But some of these prices are insane.
Steve, listen carefully to your cable vs. box upgrade. I'd wager that you'd be far better off waiting until you could afford the HiCap. But your dealer will make more selling you the magic wire, so beware of that.
Personal choice here, of course, but the day I pay $500 for an interconnect for my HiFi is the day I have myself committed.
David

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Originally posted by NaimDropper:
o.j.-
I agree, cables should be the same length but not due to the velocity factor!
As I was saying, 20m makes a 1 part in 720 time smear at 20kHz... and less as you go further down the audio spectrum.
The cables should be the same length so the output of both channels drive the same cable load so you won't have a L-R difference due to that.
Cables are like potato chips or french fries (US bias here).
There's quite a bit of hype and advertising, endorsements from famous people, they're offered as an upgrade from what you've got now. They make the sellers very rich because they consist only of potatos, salt and grease and they can charge nearly 100 times the material cost. Consumers can't get enough.
Cables are simply metal conductors surrounded by plastic insulators. Arranged, styled and colored to make them appealing (and sometimes to improve their electrical performance). "Audiophiles" can't get enough.
Time to go on a diet and eat (and listen) sensibly.
I appreciate that development and tooling costs add to the price of any cable. But some of these prices are insane.
Steve, listen carefully to your cable vs. box upgrade. I'd wager that you'd be far better off waiting until you could afford the HiCap. But your dealer will make more selling you the magic wire, so beware of that.
Personal choice here, of course, but the day I pay $500 for an interconnect for my HiFi is the day I have myself committed.
David

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Hy NaimDropper!
of course you are right about the cable Hype,
but you will agree the we need cables.
The only serious speaker i know you get with cable from the factory is Cabasse. (no joke it comes boxed with the speaker.
for all other speaker cables we have to pay extra.
I also would disagree to change a speaker cable
if my System has a wrong tonal colouration with original boxed interconnects and a cheep No Voodo speakercable.(there must be something other wrong)

Using different amplifiers and cds and speakers
i came to the conclusion that with nordost naim
sound stays naim sound and nad sound is still nad sound ,also jeff Rowland was jeff rowland sound,and a denon remains a denon.

I am not a fan of the theory that Spectral always needs M.I.T. Ls cable.because if this is the case than you should get with every spectral amp M.I.T speaker cables for free.
(best possible performance of their products is
what all manufacturers should want)

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Originally posted by greeny:

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because of the way it was made it made it possible for the signal to travel faster than light!!!

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Wow, these guys are on for a nobel prize then!!

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Do not laugh about light Velocity ,i saw adocumentar movie and there were actually scientist who reclaimed for atomparts or quaks or quark to be faster than light. Physically not possible and so they
are sure that the room and the time must hafe changed.(like einstein said in his theory)
And really in sience this is a nobel price field because we talk today about relativity theory and the one who will show that what einstein said is
a matter of fact and no longer a theory will for sure get a nobel price.
But you are right,never for a hifi speaker cable.

Absolutely, o.j.
Cables are an "up sale" for the dealers. (Would you like fries with that? or, Would you like to "biggie size" that?)
Naim have made them "reasonable" and some dealers want to brow-beat you into buying expensive ones you don't need.
Over the years I've had many "physics lessons" from bone-brained dealers. Some of them are quite memorable! (Like the guy that tried to sell me a TT with a speed control because the music sounded "better" when it was speeded up!!!!)
Ultimately I respect the ones that don't try to feed me crap.
David