The need for a turntable ???

I can't say I've noticed any peformance loss on CD dut to a turntable being connected to any Naim pre-amps I have ever owned.
If you only have a few records I would't just stick with CD.
I run both both in my system,and while they sound different,I couldn't honestly say one is better than the other.

Paul.

quote:

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Anyway - factors such as less than a dozen records

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I wouldn't bother.

Recording and pressing quality of LP's varied greatly at the time. It's expensive to buy them new and secondhand condition also varies greatly. Most of us with turntables already have an extensive collection.

Mike

Naheed
I don't disagree with the comments above, they're entirely logical. But there is a chance that you're missing out on something you would really enjoy. Best thing to do is try and get to listen to a well sorted TT in a similar system to yours. That should help you decide whether to get one.

From an economic pov it could make sense if your tastes are many and varied and you buy a lot of music. There is a huge back catalogue out there that can be had for £2-£4 a copy.

regards
Steve

I totally agree with Kan Man: try it! Don't miss it...! I also startet with ~10 LPs, but one needs a TT to buy more LPs...

Re internal phono boards in 52: if you remove them and us an external powered phono stage the sound of CD improves.

- Jun (52 owner)

I'm kinda stuck with the same doubts lately...

I have listened to several TT's, and in most of the A-B comparison I preferred the vinyl playback.
My amp carries quite a decent phonoboard.
Also I like the way most modern TT's look
(compared to my boring looking Naim CDX)
and the art and feel of those LP's sleeves.

On the other hand, just like Naheed, I also have only 15LP's left, and about 90% of the music I like most, only comes out in CD.

So, as well as for myself as for Naheed I'd think that it all comes down to this:

1. Can you deal with the fact that most of the vinyl you'll buy is s/h, and probably also most titels are at least about >15 years old ?

2. Are there enough shops,places in your town/area where you can get LP's ?

3. The few new vinyl albums that do come out are pretty expensive.

I had the chance to borrow an old modified Thorens TD165/SME3009/AudioNote mm from a friend, a few months ago.
After about 3 weeks I had to give it back, and I must say that this oldtimer sure did give my CDX a hard time, and in some occasions I even preferred the TT over my CDX!
So,...ever since I had to give the old Thorens back, I have this little angel sitting on the left of my shoulder saying:"Go on, get into analog again, and enjoy pure music,etc,etc", and one of those little red devils on the right shoulder saying:"Nah, forget it, and stick to CD. Your CDP sounds fine and you'll only end up getting LP's that you probably wouldn't have bought on CD, because of the music itself."

regards,
Alco

First go out and try to score a good collection. I've scored good collections as cheap as $.10/LP. Then make your decision about what TT to buy. If you buy a good used one you can always get your money out. Its been a great journey for me.

Take care,
John

Part of the impetus for me in putting a hifi system back together again was due to the fact that I have a collection in excess of 1000 LP's. These have been in my garage for 10 years during which time I listened EXCLUSIVELY to CD's. When I began shopping for my HiFi system I listened to an LP for the first time in 10 years-it brought tears to my eyes! The warmth and feeling cannot be expressed, and I even enjoyed listening to the pops and clicks in the disc.

I have now finished assembling my system which will be installed next week: my existing ProAc SuperTablette speakers combined with a new Nait 5-CD5-Stageline and a Rega P3 turntable.
Actually I had my dealer grab the last Nait5 here in the States for one main reason (as opposed to a new Nait5i) The ability to use the high quality Stageline with my turntable. That was more important for me than goingwith the newer 5i.

Gregg

PS I even have begun to buy LP's again-and contrary to other postings I have been buying new LP's for $8.99

Many thanks for your comments guys

The type of music genre i listen to (dance/trance/techno) is quite easy accessible, albeit slightly expensive from the likes of major Virign/HMV and smaller specialised outlets.

I've got the neccessary phono cards - so at this point it'll do.
I'm going to buy and try, as i reckon with the right purchase (at the right price) and can sell it on if its not my bag.

I guess Alco really touches on a key driver for the turntable, i just like the look (sorry to be so superficial guys), plus i have an empty rack shelf (that little red devil won't keep quite)

naheed. . .

I had 600-700 LP's when I had my TT. Its all gone now. LP's take a LOT of space, as does a TT. Also, if you're not used to vinyl anymore , can you live with the pops and clicks?

Good for you Naheed

You've probably figured from the number of threads here that there is a bit of a learning curve when it comes to getting the most out of a TT. If you end up disappointed with the sound, seek advice before selling it again!

Regards
Steve

Many thanks guys

All going well i should have a turntable (either an lp12 or gyrodec (it looks ) within the next few weeks

naheed. . .

Naheed

For what it's worth, I have Rega Planet CDP and an LP12 TT fitted with a Linn Akito arm and Dynavector cartridge. The TT was purchased some 15yrs ago has not had the benefit of any upgrades. I have copies of Buddy Guy's 'Damn Right I've Got The Blues' on CD and LP. The TT played the music sweetly, openly and detailed. Some of the detail was there on the CD but the music was harsh. I don't have that many LP's but I would never part with the TT.

Good luck...George.

I would suspect that a lot of contributors of this forum cannot resist the temptation to A/B, from time to time, for the attention of "non-believers", that vinyl can easily outperform CD (in my instance that means comparing LP12/Lingo/IttokLVIII/Klyde to a Linn Ikemi CD player, which both costed more or less the same). To be honest, on analogue recordings the result is always a preference (by my blind-tested non-believing friends) of vinyl (and sometimes the difference is incredible, notably in respect of soundstage and depth) but on digital recordings, I feel the difference is minimal and the "winning sound" is sometimes open to discussion. CD being childproof, relatively maintenance-free compared to a TT (and the records), remote controlled and with a three times larger playing time, I wouldn't have a TT today if I didn't have a few hundred LP's I cherish.

This being said, there are of course a few million LP's out there, at very cheap prices, so I suppose it could make sense to start with LP's today...

Hi Naheed and others

CD Vs Vinyl debate Eh? can't resist adding my two penn'th to that.

I have an LP12/Ittok/Troika/Armageddon (Troika rebuilt this year by Goldring) and a Tag DVD32R/Chord Dac64 on the front of my system.

Whether a particular piece of material sounds better on CD than vinyl seems to depend on how recently it was mastered (or remastered) on CD and what the original recording format was (analogue or digital).

Recently remastered analogue recordings are generally better sounding than the vinyl LP in my system. This applies to old favourite Linn dem records such as the first four Dire Straits albums and Talk Talk' colour of spring aswell as the rest of my listening material, so a lot of you can try it for youyrselves. (marks for most improved remaster in my collection go to Supertramp's Breakfast in America album, and most pointless remasters are Queen's 1994 series which are still vastly inferior to the vinyl)

The crucial dates seem to be somewhere between 1993 and 1997 depending on the record label and when they updated thier mastering equipment. Earlier CD masters from originally analogue sources seem to be more or less universal in their ability to disappoint compared with vinyl.

early DDD CD's seem not to improve - but that's probably because the old 16bit 48Khz masters have little scope to reveal any more - you're stuck with the original limitations. The industry now accepts that early digital recording techniques were not as good as was claimed and most new masters use at least 192Khz sampling and 24 bit techniques. The ability to time and transient align the transcription to 44.1 Khz 16bit CD has also vastly improved.

The choice of whether to go for a Vinyl system must depend mostly on the sort of material you like to listen to. If you primarily buy modern recordings then there probably isn't any point, and in fact you probably can't get the material on vinyl anyway.

If you like 70's 80's early 90's material, classic jazz, or classical recordings of old masters then vinyl has almost certainly got something to offer you.

The other good thing is that you can get second hand vinyl very cheaply and try out a recording before you commit to a more expensive and possibly less good CD.

The amount you need to spend on Vinyly replay to get something you'll be happy with compared to your CD player depends how good the CD player is.

You'll need at least a Linn Sondek with Ittok to compare comfortably with anything Linn or Naim currently make.

quote:

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Originally posted by Naheed:
The type of music genre i listen to (dance/trance/techno) is quite easy accessible, albeit slightly expensive from the likes of major Virign/HMV and smaller specialised outlets.

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Aha - you want to go to places like FOPP, Chaosunlimited.co.uk, 101cd.com etc for cheap(er) vinyl then - HMV/Virmin charge a premium and the ones in Exeter's HMV at least, you'd not want to buy, due to some oik rippin' em up Judge Jools style on the crappy DJ turntables next to them. Shame really 'cos that copy of Beastie Boys' Licenced to ill looks very VERY cool on gatefold vinyl...

You've GOT to hear trance on a good (or even midfi) turntable - my copy of Astral Projection's Another world sounds blinding on my Rega Planar 3, as does 1200 Mics' Heroes of the imagination.

Into more mainstream territory - almost everything I have on vinyl (in good nick obvioulsy) STILL sounds better than the equivalent on my CD5... Maybe a Flatcap will finally even the score - but that'll make the CDP 4.5x the cost of my turntable!

You can get GOOD condition vinyl from as low as £1 if you hunt around - it's all the fun of the chase. The only bummer is you'll get sick to DEATH of thumbing through "The world of Mantovani" and "Singalonga Max", oh, and that EVIL "The sound of music" for the nth time in the nth charity shop while on said quest for cheap choons though

BTW - let it be noted that I got a turntable on the same day as my CD player, in 1991. I don't have AS much vinyl as CD, but it's much more varied. I'd guess I've got about 100 duplicates on both formats - normally where I "upgraded" to vinyl over the CD, or got the CD to play on the move since vinyl won't fit in a Discman.

BTW - you can get good deals on the high street - as I say, FOPP are good. I got X-Press2's Muzikizum for £7, Libertines' Up the bracket for a tenner etc etc. The most I've spent on one vinyl release was for the incredibly rare triple disc set of Loved Up - which pees on the CD version from a great height. The CD itself is a good un though...

That old chestnut re vinyl taking up more space than CDs though - I'm not convinced. I reckon if you took the VOLUME of space taken up by an average single CD case, and a single LP-in-sleeve, and compared them - I don't reckon there'd be much in it. MY ~500 records on the face of it don't appear to take up anywhere near as much space as ~870 CDs; 2.75 shelves for the vinyl versus 8 shelves + a couple of piles for the CDs... Where ALL shelves are the same length...

BTW - if you get a Gyrodec and don't like it... You know who to PM. I'll break out the stocking and sawnoff for one of those!

__________________________
Make your choice, adventurous Stranger;
Strike the bell and bide the danger
Or wonder, till it drives you mad,
What would have followed if you had.

[This message was edited by domfjbrown on TUESDAY 27 January 2004 at 13:28.]

quote:

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Originally posted by colasblue:
You'll need at least a Linn Sondek with Ittok to compare comfortably with anything Linn or Naim currently make.

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I missed this - but for me, the Planar 3/RB300/Ortofon 540 I have is STILL better musically than the CD5 - though admittedly this has low hours on it as it's only 2 weeks old...

There's still *something* more tiring about listening to digital sources in my system over analog - especially DAB. But that's off topic.

Maybe I really DO need to replace my tweeters...

__________________________
Make your choice, adventurous Stranger;
Strike the bell and bide the danger
Or wonder, till it drives you mad,
What would have followed if you had.

Naheed, you can buy my LP12/Aro/Armageddon/Helikon plus 1000-odd records for a negotiable price if you're interested - whaddya say? That way you get a decent record collection (with some dross admittedly, IMHO), a VPI record cleaner, the Naimed deck and I'll just CDR those records that I can't get on cd.

Just a crazy thought from a crazy Scotsman on a boring Tuesday afternoon...

Feel free to make me an all-inclusive offer...

John

quote:

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Originally posted by Naheed:
The type of music genre i listen to (dance/trance/techno)

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Some of this stuff only ever comes out on vinyl. You'll be missing out on some great tunes if you don't get a record player. It shouldn't matter that it might sound worse than CD. It won't though.

duncan

Email: djcritchley at hotmail.com

Another factor for the TT, is as mentioned most of my kinda music is really on the floppier format.

John - looking at that spec, doubt my offer would please, i'm looking more for a happy starter pack sub £500, though history painfully reminds me of those famous last words when buying a 32.5/110 a decade later and a few £00,000's later

naheed. . .

Sound for pound I think CD wins out hands down over vinyl and I love vinyl, grown up with it, but to be totally honest I think you really need to spend serious money on a TT to compete with say a CD5 for overall sound performance, although they obviously are quite different.
Vinyl`s the best in my book but I am afraid the turntable I would want I just can`t afford.

quote:

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to be totally honest I think you really need to spend serious money on a TT to compete with say a CD5 for overall sound

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Well Marco... prepair for a shock...
A few months ago I borrowed an old Thorens TD165,with SME3009 arm and AudioNote MM cartridge, from a friend.

I do have some titels on CD as well as on vinyl.
Well, on some occasions the old Thorens was sonically on the same level as my CDX!
With some records I even prefered the Thorens!
(for example: with Ennio Morricone's 'Once upon a time in America', Dire Straits debut album and Sade's 'Stronger than pride')

I didn't bought the TT but it was offered to me for 300,- euro, which is a common and fair price.
My Naim CDX though, costed me 2700,- euro!

So, I guess a Rega P3 or P25 could/would seriously give yer Naim CD5 a hard time.

regards,
Alco

If youre into classical a good but cheap turntable (I got a Planar 3 for £150) might be a good idea. The slam of a full orchestra on good quality vinyl is a world away from any CD I've heard. Takes your breath away.

Jonathan

quote:

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Originally posted by Alco:
Dire Straits debut album

So, I guess a Rega P3 or P25 could/would seriously give yer Naim CD5 a hard time.

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He he he - funny thing about this is that the first dIRE sTRAITS LP is REALLY well recorded, but the CD (the original issue) was done on first gen CD mastering equipment, and even though it's still one of the best CDs I own for sound (along with Love Over Gold for starters), I expect the remastered versions (which I haven't heard) are better than or nearer to the vinyl.

My P3 kills the CD5 on "Walking in the wild west end/In the gallery/Sultans of swing"....

__________________________
Make your choice, adventurous Stranger;
Strike the bell and bide the danger
Or wonder, till it drives you mad,
What would have followed if you had.

quote:

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I expect the remastered versions (which I haven't heard) are better than or nearer to the vinyl.

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Well, guess what... I only have the remastered CD version! Never heard the origina recording on CD.
Still, imho the original vinyl version beats the latest CD version.

regards,
Alco