Supernait Upgrade Options
Posted by: Chris Willcocks on 17 March 2009
Hi. I am new to the forum, so please excuse any naivity or stupidity.
I used to have a large Naim setup, CDS2/52/135's/SBL's. Loved the sound. I disposed of it some years ago as the new range appeared, and my requirements changed. I went to Meridian for a while, but returned to the fold last year with a SuperNait.
My uses for the SN are now purely digital. I have three sources connected digitally directly to the SN. Sky HD, Blue Ray, and Apple TV. Music is played off of the ATV in AAC for convenience, or streamed from an iMAC in WAV form for quality. The main use for the system is off of Sky TV every evening. Speakers are Harbeth Monitor 30, which deal with speech and midrange superbly, and I'm delighted with them.
So my question. I believe the Harbeths could use more power, and want to use a 250. I also want to put a hicap onto the SN. Looking at the forum, and the manuals, I'm struggling to get a clear picture of whether this is possible. The manual only shows a hicap connected, and a 200 as a possible connection biamped or via a hicap, but not a 250. So can this be done? And does anybody recommend this or an alternative route? ie Go to a DAC/Pre/HC/250 solution? But I need the box and remote count minimised.
Any thoughts gratefully received. Thank you.
Posted on: 17 March 2009 by lawoftrust
Chris,
what you plan can be done with the SN (though I assume that only two digital sources can be connected digitally to the SN). I have tried a 250 with teh SN and it works very well. You can either use the SN as mere preamplifier, the 250 doing the power work or you can bi-amp, the SN for the bass and the 250 for mids and trebles (which I prefer over the vice versa approach as the 250 sounds better in mids and trebles).
Alternatively you can buy any other Naim aplification and wait for the upcoming Naim DAC.
Posted on: 17 March 2009 by Chris Willcocks
Thank you. I have the Sky box and the ATV connected to the SN by optical, and the blue ray by digital coax.
If I use a 250 in bi amp mode does this preclude the HC as a necessity?
Posted on: 17 March 2009 by Chris Willcocks
On the DAC front, what would be perfect for me would be a DAC with about 6 digital inputs, 3 of each, one or two analogue inputs, and a volume control. Then add a power amp, maybe a PS, and weyhey,! maybe.
)
Posted on: 17 March 2009 by js
4 digital inputs and can be used with any amp. The outboard PSs are a good thing.
Posted on: 17 March 2009 by e-h
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Willcocks:
If I use a 250 in bi amp mode does this preclude the HC as a necessity?
I think the pre-out of the SN can be used for this purpose without an external ps.
Just remember the SN will sound more powerful with a HC.
Posted on: 17 March 2009 by Chris Willcocks
Thank you. I have made my mind up to buy a HC first and enjoy that for a while before considering the next step.
Posted on: 18 March 2009 by js
quote:
Originally posted by e-h:
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Willcocks:
If I use a 250 in bi amp mode does this preclude the HC as a necessity?
I think the pre-out of the SN can be used for this purpose without an external ps.
Just remember the SN will sound more powerful with a HC.
HC/FC is for pre section only. Does add even more solidity and dynamic contrast to the sound but no power. Always get the supply before considering other options. The internal amp is VG and the pre will always benefit more.
Posted on: 28 March 2009 by Chris Willcocks
Thank you everybody, I got a Hicap-2, plugged it in last night, wonderful, and will get better I'm sure as it warms up
Posted on: 28 March 2009 by winkyincanada
Yep, it works a treat, doesn't it.
Posted on: 29 March 2009 by Chris Willcocks
Yes it is. I only have digital sources into the SN, a Sky HD box, an Apple TV, and a Sony BDP. With every one of them the sound has opened out, become more relaxed, and easier to distinguish fine detail, like speech off of the Sky. I am really pleased.
Posted on: 29 March 2009 by e-h
Glad your happy with the HC. It was a very worthwile upgrade to my SN.
Posted on: 18 April 2009 by ste01
Hi
I use my SN purely for diital inputs. i.e. a Squeezebox Duet reciever via coax into the SN.
However I am underwhelmed by sound - the bass is bloomy and it lacks detail. not really listenable tbh.
But when I compare this A/B to an external dac - Musical Fidelity v-dac - into the SN's phoono inputs the sound is much improved, bass becomes taut and tuneful and detail is back. wonderful.
Now the MF v-dac costs £160 - and is reviewed as a good but fairly basic dac despite MFs claims to it being 'technically one of the best dacs in the world'. So am I doing something wrong with the SN or is the inbuilt dac not very good at all?
Does it need a Hi-cap to get both the dac and preamp working optimally?
Thanks for advice in advance.
S
Posted on: 18 April 2009 by themrock
I have read that ,when adding HC or SC the digital section of the SN would benefit most, what would be the best fpor you, because you are using this section (int. DAC)
Posted on: 18 April 2009 by ste01
Thanks. Might try that next. Also read that the NAIM DC1 cable might help so will buy one as well.
Am using a cheap and cheerful cable from Maplins at the moment on the understanding that cables only matter for analogue signals?
Posted on: 19 April 2009 by spacey
i use my sn with digital in only too, from airport express into its dac, sounds excellent to me. you must have it setup wrong.
Posted on: 19 April 2009 by ste01
quote:
i use my sn with digital in only too, from airport express into its dac, sounds excellent to me. you must have it setup wrong.
Pretty sure I have.
Can I ask what digital cable you are using and whether your have any PS upgrades?
Posted on: 19 April 2009 by spacey
my system is:
supernait/neat momentum 3i/target R2 stands/NACA5-F plugs/VDH optical/airport express/netgear SC101T NAS & DG834N router/dedicated tecra M9 laptop/itunes.
Posted on: 01 May 2009 by Chris Willcocks
As I started this thread I should provide another update, as things changed again. Having enjoyed the setup with the Hicap added, I then bought a new 250. At first I used it as the only power amp, connecting to the SN via the HC, improvement was good but actually no startling, then after about a week, I rewired and biamped. Kept the Hicap in, but used the SN to drive the tweeters and the 250 the mid/woofers of the Monitor 30's.
The difference now was bigger, to my ears, than adding the Hicap. I was delighted. I did switch the amps over to have the 250 drive the tweeters, and vice versa, but switched back after a few days, it was not as good.
I then tried two runs of NACA5 versus Chord Odyssey, and the NAC won out.
So that's me done for some time, delighted, settled in every night listening, very happy. Thanks for all advice given, and in case anybody is wondering, the 250 was a demo model that was well run in before I brought it home.
Thanks again.
Posted on: 01 May 2009 by spacey
i was talking about bi-amping with a 250 or 200 today... dont want a hi-cap2 though.
hope you enjoy you new found system. what are monitor 30s?
Posted on: 01 May 2009 by winkyincanada
Chris,
Just curious about how you have it hooked up. It's not clear to me from the manual how this should be done. Do you have the HC connected as per figure 20.3, and 250 as per figure 20.4. Or is the 250 connected to the HC somehow (more like figure 20.5)?
Winky
Posted on: 01 May 2009 by winkyincanada
r-tee,
Why doncha wanna Hicap? They're well cool.
Winky
Posted on: 02 May 2009 by spacey
winky, id rather supercap, then id have 3 full size boxes and the best power possible. also if the duties of the SN are split the powersupply in it will be getting an easier time anyhow.
Posted on: 02 May 2009 by winkyincanada
Oh.
Posted on: 02 May 2009 by spacey
and to be honest im perfectly happy with the bare supernait and a pair or hi-end monitors fed by a computer
Posted on: 03 May 2009 by Chris Willcocks
quote:
Originally posted by winkyincanada:
Chris,
Just curious about how you have it hooked up. It's not clear to me from the manual how this should be done. Do you have the HC connected as per figure 20.3, and 250 as per figure 20.4. Or is the 250 connected to the HC somehow (more like figure 20.5)?
Winky
Winky, re your question above, I have the hicap hooked up as per 20.3, and then added the 250 as per 20.4.
My first try out was with both hooked as in 20.5, and in this configuration the 250 is doing everything, so speaker leads only go from 250, and thus the power amp in the SN is not used, but it is still getting power from the HC.
By then configuring as per the combination of 20.3/20.4 the HC is feeding power into the SN and the signal back in as well, and the 250 is getting signal from the biamp out on the SN. Then I run speaker leads from both the SN and the 250 to the speakers, the 250 doing bass, the SN treble, et voila.
This is my preference, but I have been told others prefer the other way around. Worth trying all combo's before you buy as will depend on your ears, sources, preferences, etc.
Good luck.
