Whither Naim?
Posted by: Alex S. on 24 February 2002
I have the utmost respect for Naim as a company, its products and its people, so what follows is not a critisism but an observation from a personal perspective.
I think this is the year that Naim left me behind. At Bristol I noticed the signs of a very sensible two pronged attack in two areas were I have no great interest: AV and 'High End'.
A centre channel, a sub to follow, a newish processor, all this speaks for itself and will bring Naim a great deal of success. At 5 Series level it will tempt many away from Arcam and below. It will look impressive, sound impressive and be a veritable lifestyle statement. It interests me not one jot.
The 500 and 552 interest me more. I note the following: 1. No upgrade path from previous products, 2. Casework that does not look like Mr Tibbs did it (who spotted the Supercap in the AV room, it looked sad, but was no doubt doing wonders for the sound), 3. Big price tags, 4. All the Naim dynamics, pace and timing with added hi-fi - much more space around instruments, depth, soundstaging, blah, blah. This looks very obviously to me like a head-on attempt to fight Krell, Levinson et al on their home turf. Good Luck! But I have neither the inclination nor the wallet to jump on board.
As I say, this is just a personal feeling. I'm sure many of you will disagree, and if I win the lottery I might sign up again, although I suspect that any future changes of mine would involve valves.
I hope here to start a debate rather than an argument.
Alex
Posted on: 27 February 2002 by Paul Ranson
My Quad 22 preamp has phonos, but they're not quite the same size as modern ones.
IIRC the DIN defined hifi, if you can do 15w at 0.1% then you're in. And various signal levels, particularly for tape machines that simply wouldn't work in todays conventions.
If the 52 is 'dual mono' in construction, why does it share the earth between the channels?
(The snow is settling in Northants, it must be nearly March!)
Paul
Posted on: 27 February 2002 by Top Cat
quote:
If the 52 is 'dual mono' in construction, why does it share the earth between the channels?
Good question. This is why my DNM preamp uses a seperate earth pin for its DIN plugs, i.e. ++00_ (where _ is unused) as opposed to Naim's ++0__
For what it's worth, however, running the preamp with Naim-terminated DIN plugs works fine. In fact, that's how the Mayware adaptors are terminated IIRC. I've been told that the split earth is the way to go with my particular preamp (which star earths either 'mono' section internally at the latest possible point) although of course I couldn't say if my split earth terminated DINs would work with a Naim amp.
Interesting point to pick up on, though...
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Posted on: 27 February 2002 by garyi
I find it a shame that there is little in the way of discussion on how awsome this pre sounds, instead an unending argument about a type of connection which dosn't need to be used.
I liken it to a cup holder in a jag, most people that own jags wouldn't dream of taking a coffee in there, but at least its there if you want it.
In the mean time its doing no harm and can be ignored.
Posted on: 27 February 2002 by Alex S.
Bugger. I will have to look elsewhere for my next vehicle.
Alex
Posted on: 27 February 2002 by Top Cat
Just be thankful that it's as cheap as it is - I guess it could be a heck of a lot more expensive!
FWIW, I started using my own amps with that manufacturer's own cable (DNM Reson solid-core) and whilst it is a fine cable at the price, it is certainly by no means the best for that amp. So, as a counterpoint to the NAC-A5 brigade, own-brand cables aren't always the best tool for the job (although in the case of Naim I have no experience, save for some NAC-A5 off the Nait-2)
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Posted on: 27 February 2002 by Andrew L. Weekes
Whilst I wouldn't buy a car 'cos it had one, when you have as much trouble as I do getting up in the morning (or have to contend with the bloody M25 as I am for the next two weeks) it's nice to be able to sip my cup of freshly ground whilst parked in the fast lane, admiring the scenery
Didn't have time to make it this morning and therefore have been a miserable sod all day 
Andy.
Posted on: 27 February 2002 by ken c
This is something that is readily demonstrable as I've found in the case of my humble 102 / hicap, now clearly singing loud the benefits of reduced 0V return impedance.i well remember someone on this forum saying that impedance to earth (if thats the same as 0V return impedance?) was irrelevant. i probably totally misunderstood.
either way, i definitely believe that impedance to earth matters, a great deal. but i cant write a thesis on it...
enjoy
ken
Posted on: 28 February 2002 by ken c
Regarding cost, no consumer product is worth the material cost, it is the added value the manufacturer brings to that product...peter, very well put!!
enjoy
ken
Posted on: 28 February 2002 by Jonathan Gorse
The 552 is an awesome pre-amplifier, indeed a landmark creation - of that there is no doubt.
I still have some concerns about the looks of it and some of the other new gear. I don't think the new backlit naim logo or the way it is executed looks as classy as the old naim audio logo (except on the speakers where it looks good) I also have some reservations about the buttons and again prefer the older design ones.
Interesting to see if others share my views or if I am in the minority however it must be said that I am resistant to radical re-branding exercises - my own organisation has learnt that newer is not always better.
Some of the most powerful brands in the world are virtually unchanged for years eg Cadbury's, Levi's, McDonalds, IBM. I don't know anyone that doesn't like the old naim audio logo or who felt it was dated.
By combining the old and new I think Naim could have the best of both worlds - how about the new cases with the old badge and old buttons? Personally I think that would be superb.
Jonathan
Posted on: 28 February 2002 by ken c
I don't think the new backlit naim logo or the way it is executed looks as classy as the old naim audio logo (except on the speakers where it looks good) almost every one who looks at my main hifi system comments on how "cool" "subtle" etc etc the old naim logo is. like you, i am sad this doesnt feature on the new stuff.
similarly almost everyone prefers the new buttons on our 112 than the old ones on the 52. i dont. but just goes to show.
enjoy
ken
Posted on: 28 February 2002 by MarkEJ
quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan Gorse:
I don't think the new backlit naim logo or the way it is executed looks as classy as the old naim audio logo (except on the speakers where it looks good) I also have some reservations about the buttons and again prefer the older design ones.
With you there, "except on the speakers" -- where it looks like...
OK, so they don't use Naim's very sinuous and beautiful lower-case Avant Garde, but even so it's a bit similar, IMHO. Suspect that Naim was there first, however.
quote:
By combining the old and new I think Naim could have the best of both worlds - how about the new cases with the old badge and old buttons? Personally I think that would be superb.
Agree without reservation. However, this must have at least been considered, and possibly Therefore, if as seems likely they had a hand in the 552, didn't agree!
Admittedly, I didn't actually touch any of the buttons on the 552 at the show, but I suspect that they feel exactly like the 5 series buttons (would be thrilled to be contradicted here, BTW). If this is the case, then the feel of the buttons is quite OK for the 5 series, but not for the 552. I played with someone's CD3.5 recently and was pretty impressed with its heavy, precise feel (buttons and drawer). Made our CD5 feel like a bit of a Mondeo by comparison, and sounded damned fine, too.
Looking at the "old" logo, and thinking carefully about how it is implemented, I think it could well be a complete pain in the arse to manufacture. However, I for one would willingly pay another 20 quid per box for it (just a figure out of my head -- no idea how realistic this is).
I like the anodising on the 552/500 casing a lot.
Best;
Mark
(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)
Posted on: 28 February 2002 by garyi
Cool link mark!
Posted on: 28 February 2002 by Andrew L. Weekes
Interesting link Mark!
Wouldn't call it impressive or cool on 56k modem though - takes bloody ages waiting for bloody graphics etc. to appear.
At least the hardware ergonomic design is better than the web ergonomics
It's good to see Naim using the skills of such companies, but then I'm a 5 series lover.
quote:
I played with someone's CD3.5 recently and was pretty impressed with its heavy, precise feel (buttons and drawer). Made our CD5 feel like a bit of a Mondeo by comparison, and sounded damned fine, too.
Just goes to show - a colleague and I thought his CD3 felt clunky and amateurish in comparison to my CD5.
Andy.
Posted on: 28 February 2002 by ken c
many thanks. very useful.
It's worth remembering that your household earth connection might be noisy, so there is some merit in the separate spike idea - haven't tried it myself though.
what is the nature of this "noise". is the end result that my mains earth is then not 0V wrt real earth?
Hope that sheds some light on the matter.
definitely. i didnt know what "0V returns" actually meant.
will study your posting and get back if i have any other questions.
many thanks and enjoy
ken
Posted on: 28 February 2002 by Martin Payne
quote:
Originally posted by Craig Best:
From 'Well Connected?', Naim Newsletter, Winter 2000 Edition, page 7, last paragraph..."It's also worth remembering that connecting a CD player, even an inexpensive one, to one of the DIN inputs using a good quality RCA to DIN cable will provide superior sound to the RCA input."
OK, my rebut is rebutted!
cheers, Martin
Posted on: 28 February 2002 by Mark Dunn
Hi all:
Mr. Tibbs wrote:
>It's worth remembering that your household
>earth connection might be noisy, so there is some >merit in the separate spike idea - haven't tried >it myself though.
Mr. T, from my experience here in the U.S. this is a no-brainer (d'oh!) and on a par with getting a separate spur. Just get one of those big ol' 8ft earth spikes and have the SO bang it in for you*.
Best Regards,
Mark Dunn
* Much easier than doing it yourself and such a pantomime to watch.
Posted on: 28 February 2002 by Steve Toy
The new naim logo looks blurred in comparison with the old naim-audio one which I prefer on the electronics - especially in the dark.
The new logo looks great on the bottom of the speakers, though.
It is also interesting to note that the CD5 still has the old logo on the bottom of the swing drawer.
As for using Spendor speakers with Naim electronics, I know of one person who is very happy with this combination...
The two obviously make great bed-fellows.
Regards,
Steve.
The proof of the pudding...
Posted on: 01 March 2002 by ken c
Just get one of those big ol' 8ft earth spikes and have the SO bang it in for you*.whats the SO???
enjoy
ken
Posted on: 01 March 2002 by Alex S.
I thought Paul S. designed the lot on the back of a fag packet.
Alex
Posted on: 01 March 2002 by Andrew L. Weekes
Mr.T.
Have you got any of that water cylinder left, or did it all get fashioned into Tibbs junior's HiFi system?
I think you should attach a large cable to it, dig a deep hole, close to a nice damp area and bury it. Or even fashion it onto a nice spike with larger surface area than the normal rods. Not sure how long it will last before the elements eat it away, but it's cheap and I have a feeling, like me, that's also music to your ears.
Connect the other end of wire to mains socket HiFi is fed from (or consumer unit as I think you have multiple spurs) sit back (with a nice Guinness and some Christy Moore?) and thank your God, whoever he/she/it may be, for the wonders of music (and electricity!).
Andy 
Posted on: 01 March 2002 by ken c
ahh, SO = significant other --- good one!!
Hmm, I've almost convinced myself a separate spike could be the order of the day -or tomorrow perhaps..
i have often wondered -- why bother with earth spike when, if you have metal water mains piping -- you can just take your earth wire to that. then you wont have to worry about keeping your garden earth spike wet -- that's automatically done.
when i looked at out water mains, its joined to a plastic section before it leaves out garage. bummer!!! i thought i was onto a good thing there. (if you have an all metal mains water -- apparently you have to "ask for permission from the appropriate authority before using it as a "super earth". strange, given the bonding regs.
i thought of this idea of a an earth spike and failed at the very first hurdle -- how do i dig in a copper pipe, or copper pipes 4 or more ft into the ground?? anyone any ideas??
enjoy
ken
Posted on: 01 March 2002 by ken c
...sit back (with a nice Guinness and some Christy Moore?) andy, wait a sec, you are NOT allowed to talk about Christy Moore so flippantly... there may be fans about...!!
enjoy
ken
Posted on: 01 March 2002 by Andrew L. Weekes
I like Christy Moore, I've been listening to 'Smoke and Strong Whiskey' tonight (admittedly with a glass of Wychwood 'Hobgoblin' in hand rather than the black stuff.
Don't forget your shovel...
Andy.
Posted on: 01 March 2002 by Mark Dunn
Ken C wrote:
>...how do i dig in a copper pipe, or copper pipes >4 or more ft into the ground?? anyone any ideas??
10lb sledgehammer.
Best Regards,
Mark Dunn
Posted on: 01 March 2002 by ken c
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Dunn:
Ken C wrote:>...how do i dig in a copper pipe, or copper pipes >4 or more ft into the ground?? anyone any ideas??
10lb sledgehammer.
Best Regards,
Mark Dunn
ha ha ha, i have tried that one. the pipe just decided it had had enough and simply bent...
enjoy
ken
