Home cinema projector

Don

How much have you set aside for the screen?. A decent one of those ain't cheap either.

These seem to be claiming good perfromance:
http://www.infocushome.com/projectors/index.asp?lang=eng®ion=emea

They were voted Europes best projector.In their UK advert they suggest phoning 01423-359054

GEOFF

A really good for less than 3000UKP, i don`t think so, a decent one... yes.
Take care, the screen size must be in accordance with the projector quality, don`t build a mullet video system (projector=amp, screen=speakers). At this price range, i won`t go larger than 80". And a good screen is essential, a small, high quality screen is much better than a large drape.

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.

Anyone had experience with the Infocus sp4800? Only 1200 quid and it is supposed to produce a pretty decent image.

Recently we have been playing with the Epson EMP-TW10. It retails for £1000 and at the moment (before the end of the month), it comes with a decent screen. Now I know this is cheap by projector standards and the more expensive projectors are better, but if you want it just for the occasional bit of cinematic fun it's frighteningly good value for money, probably because it has a 16:9 LCD screen. I haven't directly compared it against the infocus equivalent mentioned above, but I'd be surprised if that came close. Finally, the main concern for cheaper models is noise and this one is very quiet indeed at 29db when running in economy mode (called Theatre Black, which we prefer since you get better blacks this way). We run it this way all the time and the picture remains excellent value.

As Manu says above, the size is important. Most projectors have problems maintaining picture quality beyond 8ft diagonal, and a 6ft (80") picture is more usual.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Frank

Interesting as always to hear your opinions. As a potential punter it is difficult to get an objective dem of projector competition under the same roof.

The Infocus does get rave reviews in the press and the cornflake shop think it's the business at that price point. It is DLP and has a very high spec for the lolly. If I take the plunge I will set up an image no bigger than around 6 feet across (16:9) to encourage resolution and punch and to mask a little the potentially distracting artifacts etc.

There is also the infocus x1 which is basically the same projector but targeted more at the business market. It accepts a fault of upto three dead pixels and one white pixel as standard. In reality how distracting would that be? The x1 comes in at the silly figure of £780 on the internet. I am tempted for a bit of a cinema on the cheap experience.

The £7000 infocus is one of the finest projectors below big money that I have laid eyes on. Brilliant picture and DLP without the flashes! However, I haven't tried the cheaper models so I don't know how they compare. I should try it sometime.

The pixel fault problem is this - you won't be bothered too much by pixel problems outside the centre 2/3rds of the picture, but if those crucial pixels are anywhere nearer the centre they're a pain in the backside. 3 sounds like a good number to me, but it depends on the resolution of the projector of course (and I'm not an expert!).

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Nice site, thanks. The X1 seems to get a lot of good comments at the bargain end.

Mmmmmm.....those dark winter months.

quote:

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Originally posted by I remember Vuk Vuksanovic:
Don,

Many people's answer to your original question would be yes - if you go for a second hand CRT projector and get it fitted and calibrated by an expert. These can be had for a fraction of their original cost and many still feel they give the best picture, if you can get your room dark enough.

You should definitely spend some time at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=9 before making up your mind. They have forums dedicated to all sorts of different AV things, including CRT, and cheaper digital projectors.

David

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A friend of mine had a CRT projector and was dead keen to have the best possible picure standard.
Howver, after a year or two, he decided to get a DLP SIM2 as the CRT ALWAYS needed tweeking to get the best - he says that even during the summer, with ceiling joists moving etc. it needed tweaking........ His is perfectly happy with his DLP SIM2.
Having said that, I recently went the cheap route and bought a lowly Panasonic PT200E and am very impressed with the results.
Everyone who's seen it has commented that the picture quality is superb, without me asking for a comment.
For a low price of £750.00 on the Net, you can't really go wrong.
My room size makes it conveneient to have an approx 8 foot screen and picture size, which is a remarkable quality and size at the price point.
I spent £250 on my screen, so for just over £1000 I have a home cinema set-up for less than a good Toshiba 36" CRT television set.
So, by all means consider a £3000+ projector, just don't rule out the budget ones just yet.......

Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......

quote:

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Originally posted by I remember Vuk Vuksanovic:
[QUOTE]
Whereabouts on the net is the panasonic £750 and the X1 £780?

David

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Just do a search on www.pricerunner.co.uk and look for the item and you'll get a list of some UK suppliers. PRC Direct were selling the Panasonic PT200E for £800 a month or so ago and other companies at £750.......
Take a look!

Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......

I've been reading this thread with interest since my TV is on the way out and I need to figure out what to buy next. If I got a projector it would need to replace a TV for everything - occasional analogue, more DTT (Freeview) and of course DVDs. So my question is, can today's projectors handle all of the above, or are they really DVD-only at the moment? And what about light levels - I wouldn't want to watch TV with the curtains pulled all the time!

Cheers,
Simon

Another place to get some info is:
www.avforums.com - this tends to be a bit more UK biased than the www.avsforum.com mentioned above.

I'm sure the expensive projectors (say £3k+) are better than the cheaper ones, but I wouldn't dismiss the £1k - £2k end of the market. This seems to me where lots of the development is currently focused. As an example approx 1 year ago I considered the Sanyo Z1 (then about £1200) and the Sony HS10 (£2300). Less than 12 months later both have been replaced - the Sanyo Z2 is getting rave reviews, it's spec seems pretty similar to the HS10 and it's only £1300 or so. you can pick up a Z1 for about £800. We ended up with the HS10 as it was significantly better than the Z1 - the main difference to me was smaller pixels so they are less obvious if you are close the screen (this effect is known as screendoor, after the American mesh doors, in AV circles). It's generally suggested that you should be viewing the picture from approx two times the pictures width - i.e. a 6ft wide picture, you should be 12 ft away. However I nearly went for the Z1 - at £1200 it just seemed like such good value compared to a normal big widescreen box.

I got my Sony from a place called NexNix in Horsham who were happy for me to view and play for an hour or so, and still gave me the best price I'd seen on the web.

Simon asked if PJs are suitable as your only source. 'Yes' in terms of picture quality and connections, you can take a composite or SVHS feed from your vid for analogue viewing and a component feed from your DVD (if it's got them). Not really in terms of light levels - if you want a picture that'll be bright and vibrant in daylight you'll have to get a plasma. My stragey is to get a small LCD TV for newsnight etc, and keep the projector in a cupboard for the big screen experience on films, sport, etc. turning the lights down really does make watching a film more of an event.

hope this helps
Phil

I remember Vuc

I just took the plunge and ordered an X1 from 'technoworld' for £785. Last day to order before xmas, due to arrive monday a.m.

I'm dreaming of a widescreen christmas

x1 is superb!!!
My 3rd projector and it's a world away the software optomises for video
You do need the room absolutely dark and up the contrast + colour from the standard office setting it defaults to(but it remembers your changes from then on)
Do not buy just a standard office/computer projector and hope at home it'll be as good. My old toshiba(£4000) was brighter and had a higher resolution, but was poor in comparison--it's all about contrast for movies.
Regards Richard

Richard

thanks for making me feel more comfortable about a projector that I have purchased without dem (something I have always resisted)!

I am going to use a seven foot 16:9 screen with an image approx 6foot 6inches in width. View distance will be about 13 feet which as an image size/view distance ratio (I am led to believe) keeps pixel and rainbow artifacts to a minimum. I prefer the idea of a smaller but puncy image with good contrast.

The ideal screen location would force the projector slightly off cetre. I understand I can recover this with the keystone feature but have been told that this introduces a degredation to the image. Should I remove the requirement by shifting the screen to suit the projector??

Also could you point me in the right direction regarding connectivity. I want to run my fairly primative dvd player into it along with a free view box (not yet purchased - any recommendations?).

Sound is through my 2 channel system combined with a yamaha dsp800 5.1 - what about using the processor as my video switching unit? - if so is it easy?

Who make reasonably priced leads which do the job well? I will need to run at least 7-8 metres of cable to reach the projector.

Also what are your recommendations to max out the picture quality? Have you created your own customised user settings and are they quite different for a dvd in comparison to digitally broadcast tv. Can you tell me what you arrived at in the end.

Also does the device automatically adjust screen ratio as you select between dvd/tv etc? If not is it a case of always having the projector remote handy?

Any other snippets of info gratfully recieved.

Ambient light levels are not a problem as my basement flat is dingy in the middle of a summers day!

I can't think of any consumer product that has depreciated more in the last couple of years than home cinema projectors. Eighteen months ago I bought an LCD projector that had seriously good performance, at the time, for £3.5K. Nowadays the same level of performance and better can be bought for less than £1.5K

I thought the projector was fabulous when I bought it but 18 months later the wow-factor is starting to wear off and I'm thinking of upgrading. To get something significantly better means moving to one of the 1280x720 HD2 DLP projectors. Now were back into serious money again and my current projector has no significant residual value compared to what I paid for it.

Digital projector technology is still advancing rapidly and if I do upgrade now I strongly suspect the cycle will be repeated in another 18 months time.

Allan

Simon,

Could you post an update once you have your setup installed please? My new AV room should be complete early in the new year and then I'll need to decide what to do about a TV. I had originally budgeted around £4K for a 42" plasma but this thread has be considering a projector again, although I'm not totally sure I'll have the space needed for one.

Regards
Steve

I agree about the depreciation Allan. I figure that I can have fun for a few years with this and trade it in without such a tremedous depreciation as it is only 800 pounds in the first place. I am buying a good screen which will last me beyond this projector. By the time it is ready to replace I imagine a real bells and whistles product (better than the current 5k products) being available below £1500.

Simon,
Rainbow artifacts are quite independant of the viewing distance.
Change your screen location to have it centered with the projector, keystone correction should only be a fine tunning of max 3 pixels, it creates distortions.
The Chord Co does very good video cables at a fair price.
Projectors must be calibrated on site. Your room environment will affect the picture. Hire a specialist or if you want to DIY, buy DVD Essential or AVIA calibration disks, they give you all infos for a decent calibration. You will have much better contrast, colors after this job.
No video displays automatically detect the aspect ratio. You will have to change it yourself. But your projector will have a default ratio on each input. So, TV will probably be 4:3, occasionnaly switched to a zoom mode for letterbox broadcasts and your DVD will be seen in anamorphic, occasionnaly switched to 4:3 for pan and scan movies.
Your DSP800 is probably useless for video switching, except if you have multiple S-video sources (TV set-top-box, S-VHS...). Your DVD should be sent via Components. So you will have to send the 3 formats to the projector, unless you add a scaler. It converts all sources to components or RGB. Scalers are now more affordable.

Happy wide-screen holidays.

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.

Thanks Manu.

Blimey it all gets a bit complicated - whats the cost of a scaler?

All I want is a bit of back row action ( )without the requirement for a Phd in Quantum physics!!

I can see quite a lot of farting around over the festive period.....

Can`t give you prices in UK, but should start around 150P.
Using these calibration DVDs is not complicated, it is like tweaking your audio, but it is less subjective: there is one correct setting of a picture.

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.

what defines a good projector ?

I accept that, just as with hifi where listening is the ultimate test, no doubt with cinema, looking is the only valid test. However, to convey experiences and conclusions to others, a few choice words are normally needed. So what are these choice words?

Brightness; colour saturation; contrast; lack of grain; distortion; size; tonal accuracy; bleeding; depth of field; feeling of depth; vibrancy; eveness of brightness accross the screen; noise and spurious flashes; missing pixcells; ??????

Which characteristics are important and which can be tollerated if only moderate or poor.

Knowing what to look for, based on other peoples experience, would probably help....

Cheers

Don

I would go for a large conventional TV. The picture is much better with tubes.

Regards

Mick

Mick,

The picture is much better with tubes.

You're right, (at least, based on the limited demos that I have seen), except that even the 50 inch plasmas aren't really big enough to get that 'cinema' feel. And decent TVs stop at around 36 inch widescreen.

At present I am trying to decide whether to put off buying for yet a few more years, or buy something cheap now, and throw it away in a few years. I don't really feel like coughing up £7,000 +++ at present if picture quality is going to dramatically improve soon and/or prices are going to fall.

cheers

Don

You could buy a CDS3 for £7k.

If you go for a plasma, you will feel conned, it is a lot of money for a second rate picture.

It will be out of date within 6 months.

Regards

Mick

Mick,

I still use the LP12 for really listening to music although I accept that the cds3/xps2 is frighteningly satisfying.....

My perception of pictures is that TVs are still the best but rather small; plasmas are bigger but by no means better and they are very expensive for what you get; DLP and LCD projectors have faint/washed-out colours and no feeling of depth unless you spend over £5k; and crt are troublesome and take over your house....in other words, everything is still a big compromise, too much so. However, I wondered if anybody had found any of the recent LCD/DLP projectors were getting anywhere near acceptable. I shall keep looking....

Cheers

Don

PS I do feel rather jeolous that you have got your cds3/xps2......as ken would say, enjoy!