Home cinema projector
Posted by: Don Atkinson on 16 December 2003
Home cinema projector
Is it possible to buy a really good home cinema projector for less than £3,000 ?
(I don't think that a 50 inch plasma is big enough to get that 'cinema' effect.)
Whilst I appreciate that the audio part of AV is important, I have this feeling that the visual part is also important.
Cheers
Don
Is it possible to buy a really good home cinema projector for less than £3,000 ?
(I don't think that a 50 inch plasma is big enough to get that 'cinema' effect.)
Whilst I appreciate that the audio part of AV is important, I have this feeling that the visual part is also important.
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 19 December 2003 by Richard Paget
I sometimes watch my tv as my x1 warms up--colours are the same--incredibly rich--open a blind or turn on even a dim light and the colours become washed out--needs darkness--why they look awful in shops and aren't good to watch the summer lunch time news. Have owned lcd projectors--but all had poor contrast. contrast is more important than detail. You local cinema picture is bad on detail-but where would you prefer to watch lord of the rings.
But all said and done it's the scale of a 7/9ft screen that blows away the tv. You are sucked into the picture the way the director intended. I've never seen a tv movie that can leave me as drained as a big screen experience.
The enforced darkness and naim helps this too.
The other really important thing is 'speed'--the previous lcd's got blurry with rapid action the DLP on x1 ( I bought for $900us) is as good as a cathode ray tube for this. It's all down to the video processing software that computer projectors don't need/have.
I bought my projector (+£100 9ft screen from an education supply shop) for the price of an 22" lcd tv.
Richard
But all said and done it's the scale of a 7/9ft screen that blows away the tv. You are sucked into the picture the way the director intended. I've never seen a tv movie that can leave me as drained as a big screen experience.
The enforced darkness and naim helps this too.
The other really important thing is 'speed'--the previous lcd's got blurry with rapid action the DLP on x1 ( I bought for $900us) is as good as a cathode ray tube for this. It's all down to the video processing software that computer projectors don't need/have.
I bought my projector (+£100 9ft screen from an education supply shop) for the price of an 22" lcd tv.
Richard
Posted on: 19 December 2003 by blythe
quote:
Originally posted by Don Atkinson:
DLP and LCD projectors have faint/washed-out colours and no feeling of depth unless you spend over £5k; (edited)
However, I wondered if anybody had found any of the recent LCD/DLP projectors were getting anywhere near acceptable. I shall keep looking....
Cheers
Don
Even at £800 for a lowly Panasonic PT200, there is no way you could describe the colours as faint or washed out. Everyone who has seen mine have all commented on how amazing the picture is - that's be fore I tell them it's a budget projector.
OK, in a daylit room, it isn't the dog's doodaas, but in subdued or dark room, it really is quite amazing.
A DLP projector is even better!
So, I say they are very much acceptable!
No comparison to a 50" Plasma which are way too small for that real cinema experience.
OK, picture quality is not as good as a CRT TV, but the size more than makes up for it.
One instance where size truly does matter!!!!
Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......
Posted on: 19 December 2003 by Manu
You have all good points, but...
Real cimena experience comes mainly from the size of the screen. This experience is not cheap.
Low end projectors are IMO unwatchable, they are not for home cinema but for presentation. i prefer my old 32"
Same thing with plasmas, the good ones (2 or 3 brands) are better than direct view CRT TV, better color saturation, more contrast, even with less resolution than high-end CRT. The problem with the plasma market is the appairance of low-end products, giving the impression that prices are dropping fast. That's not true, at equal quality, prices are quite steady. It still costs US$ 8-10K for a good 42". Of course, you can find some at 4-5K but even cheap CRTs are better.
On the projector front, technology is evolving fast, 2 years ago LCDs was better than DLPs: 3 panel LCDs were available, DLP had poor contrast ratio, rainbow artefacts...
With the new developments in DMD technology, DLP is now the leader. New 3 chip DLPs are starting to emerge. The limiting factor for DLP today is the resolution. Standard chips are 1280*720. When higher resolution DMD will be available at a reasonnable price (in 2 years), watch it... These high-end DLPs are already available but are unbuyable.
It is quite difficult to evaluate the quality of a projector: in a demo room, they are very often not calibrated properly and on paper, specifications are comp[letely misleading. An announced contrast ratio of 1500:1 is meaningless : It is mesured in the best conditions: in a black room, it is the light ratio of a totaly white picture and a totaly black picture. It doesn't tell you what will look a single picture with black and white, the real movie picture, nor the grey scale. When we setup a projector, in the real life, we mesure contrast ratios around 100-120:1 with high-end projectors and screens. Same for light output, 2000 ANSI lumens are mesured with color temperature setted very high, the picture is unwatchable, completely blue.
One manufacturer (Runco) has started a campain to standardize the specs, before others apply, don't be fooled by the figures.
In this area, mags tests/reviews are the best bet after a serious dealer.
Emmanuel
All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
[This message was edited by Manu on SATURDAY 20 December 2003 at 05:47.]
Real cimena experience comes mainly from the size of the screen. This experience is not cheap.
Low end projectors are IMO unwatchable, they are not for home cinema but for presentation. i prefer my old 32"
Same thing with plasmas, the good ones (2 or 3 brands) are better than direct view CRT TV, better color saturation, more contrast, even with less resolution than high-end CRT. The problem with the plasma market is the appairance of low-end products, giving the impression that prices are dropping fast. That's not true, at equal quality, prices are quite steady. It still costs US$ 8-10K for a good 42". Of course, you can find some at 4-5K but even cheap CRTs are better.
On the projector front, technology is evolving fast, 2 years ago LCDs was better than DLPs: 3 panel LCDs were available, DLP had poor contrast ratio, rainbow artefacts...
With the new developments in DMD technology, DLP is now the leader. New 3 chip DLPs are starting to emerge. The limiting factor for DLP today is the resolution. Standard chips are 1280*720. When higher resolution DMD will be available at a reasonnable price (in 2 years), watch it... These high-end DLPs are already available but are unbuyable.
It is quite difficult to evaluate the quality of a projector: in a demo room, they are very often not calibrated properly and on paper, specifications are comp[letely misleading. An announced contrast ratio of 1500:1 is meaningless : It is mesured in the best conditions: in a black room, it is the light ratio of a totaly white picture and a totaly black picture. It doesn't tell you what will look a single picture with black and white, the real movie picture, nor the grey scale. When we setup a projector, in the real life, we mesure contrast ratios around 100-120:1 with high-end projectors and screens. Same for light output, 2000 ANSI lumens are mesured with color temperature setted very high, the picture is unwatchable, completely blue.
One manufacturer (Runco) has started a campain to standardize the specs, before others apply, don't be fooled by the figures.
In this area, mags tests/reviews are the best bet after a serious dealer.
Emmanuel
All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
[This message was edited by Manu on SATURDAY 20 December 2003 at 05:47.]
Posted on: 20 December 2003 by Richard Paget
Hi
I can only repeat again
my last projector an xga £4000 lcd toshiba won 'best for movies' in 98 or 99. My £700 infocus x1 eats it for breakfast.Things have moved on. The X1 despite being cheap IS designed for movies and has the necessary faroudia software on board. There was also a top range infocus 2000 lumens on special without the software --but the tech guy at Infocus recommend I buy their £700 rather than their ex £4000 if all I was going to do was watch video.
It's not the cost--it's the for video designation. The x1 is exactly the same model as the 'screenplay' 4800--in its video capacity but is a market exercise to see if there is profit in really budget players.
As for contrast I thought there was an industry standard measurement process--explained on 1 of the websites.
In summary--my last 2 projectors were not as good as my tv for colour + the dark scenes--my x1 is-- but gives me 9ft(108") of bigscreen experience in a small room(cinema scale).The tv remains for casual watching (no need to shut the blinds and cheaper running costs-no expensive bulb)
There may be better for the money than the x1 now--its a yr since I was looking--but please don't condemn cheap projectors on seeing lcd computer presentation low contrast ones in a non dark showroom. Video Front projectors on a bright screen give me a picture better than my cinema(I went last night) not that awful rear projector tv pastel blurred smudge we've all watched the footie on in the local pub. I just use a s-video lead not the 3xcomponent lead that's even better apparently--my dvd doesn't have the sockets
Richard
I can only repeat again
my last projector an xga £4000 lcd toshiba won 'best for movies' in 98 or 99. My £700 infocus x1 eats it for breakfast.Things have moved on. The X1 despite being cheap IS designed for movies and has the necessary faroudia software on board. There was also a top range infocus 2000 lumens on special without the software --but the tech guy at Infocus recommend I buy their £700 rather than their ex £4000 if all I was going to do was watch video.
It's not the cost--it's the for video designation. The x1 is exactly the same model as the 'screenplay' 4800--in its video capacity but is a market exercise to see if there is profit in really budget players.
As for contrast I thought there was an industry standard measurement process--explained on 1 of the websites.
In summary--my last 2 projectors were not as good as my tv for colour + the dark scenes--my x1 is-- but gives me 9ft(108") of bigscreen experience in a small room(cinema scale).The tv remains for casual watching (no need to shut the blinds and cheaper running costs-no expensive bulb)
There may be better for the money than the x1 now--its a yr since I was looking--but please don't condemn cheap projectors on seeing lcd computer presentation low contrast ones in a non dark showroom. Video Front projectors on a bright screen give me a picture better than my cinema(I went last night) not that awful rear projector tv pastel blurred smudge we've all watched the footie on in the local pub. I just use a s-video lead not the 3xcomponent lead that's even better apparently--my dvd doesn't have the sockets
Richard
Posted on: 20 December 2003 by blythe
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Paget:
Hi
I can only repeat again
my last projector an xga £4000 lcd toshiba won 'best for movies' in 98 or 99. My £700 infocus x1 eats it for breakfast.Things have moved on. The X1 despite being cheap IS designed for movies and has the necessary faroudia software on board.
In summary--my last 2 projectors were not as good as my tv for colour + the dark scenes--my x1 is-- but gives me 9ft(108") of bigscreen experience in a small room(cinema scale).The tv remains for casual watching (no need to shut the blinds and cheaper running costs-no expensive bulb)
There may be better for the money than the x1 now--its a yr since I was looking--but please don't condemn cheap projectors on seeing lcd computer presentation low contrast ones in a non dark showroom. Richard
Here! Here! Well said Richard!
As I mentioned in my previous post, EVERYONE who has seen my set-up has been amazed at the quality of image.
Yes, I acknowledge that spending more than £1000 on a projector can bring a better picture and the "blacks" on the budget LCD ones are not really black. But in sitting down to watch a good film, my budget one works great!
For a little over £1000 including screen and leads (componant and S-Video both 10 meters long) - I have a near cinema experience in my sitting room.
I already had the surround sound system which I can also use with my CRT TV, so I get the best of both worlds.
My Toshiba CRT 36" "Pictureframe" telly cost nearly £2000 two years ago......
Panasonic PT200E? £800 (available for even less now)
Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......
Posted on: 20 December 2003 by Geoff P
Plasma does not have to be poor.
I have a Panasonic 42" which gives out cinema quality pictures. I have tried to capture a few images here to show what I mean. Here goes:
I have a Panasonic 42" which gives out cinema quality pictures. I have tried to capture a few images here to show what I mean. Here goes:
Posted on: 20 December 2003 by Geoff P
And here's another one:
Posted on: 20 December 2003 by Geoff P
This is off Television
Posted on: 20 December 2003 by Geoff P
And heres the room with the lights turned up which shows the screen is still has quite bright colors
Posted on: 20 December 2003 by Geoff P
The slight blurring in the pictures is just due to the effect of "pausing" the picture to take a still shot. the image off TV was in motion at the time of shooting.
Posted on: 20 December 2003 by Manu
"plasma doesn`t have to be poor" Agree
"plasma value for money is inacceptible" Agree
Don't use amination movies to test a display. They all have basic colors, not a full palette, edges are sharp, well delimited. Most diplays will reproduce them well.
Use a movie with exterior scenes, night scenes, with natural light.
One of my reference for the quality of the picture is "Charlotte Gray".
Blythe,
Your leads are too long, specs for components and s-video is 8m max without a booster.
Emmanuel
All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
"plasma value for money is inacceptible" Agree
Don't use amination movies to test a display. They all have basic colors, not a full palette, edges are sharp, well delimited. Most diplays will reproduce them well.
Use a movie with exterior scenes, night scenes, with natural light.
One of my reference for the quality of the picture is "Charlotte Gray".
Blythe,
Your leads are too long, specs for components and s-video is 8m max without a booster.
Emmanuel
All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
Posted on: 20 December 2003 by blythe
quote:
Originally posted by Manu:
Blythe,
Your leads are too long, specs for components and s-video is 8m max without a booster.
Emmanuel
I guess I'll have to shrink my room then ;-) !!
I couldn't actually detect any picture difference whatsoever between my original 1.5m leads and my newer 10 m leads when I changed over. The picture looked exactly the same (surprisingly)
Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......
Posted on: 20 December 2003 by Richard Paget
Plasma screens are fantastic but too small. Size is important--agrre or disagree?
RP
RP
Posted on: 20 December 2003 by Manu
Agree,
Front projector is the only solution for a true cinema experience, but you need the room.
Emmanuel
All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
Front projector is the only solution for a true cinema experience, but you need the room.
Emmanuel
All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
Posted on: 21 December 2003 by Geoff P
quote:
Plasma screens are fantastic but too small. Size is important--agrre or disagree?
quote:
Agree,
Front projector is the only solution for a true cinema experience, but you need the room.
i agree with these two quotes. i have a small room. While I could get a bigger picture with a projector it would not be that much bigger and it would screw up my HiFi placement and reduce the sound quality of the most important element for me. In my circumstances the plasma works well.
If I had the space and could make more of a projector i would switch.
GEOFF
Posted on: 21 December 2003 by Manu
In summer, darkness doesn't come before 10:30.
In my experience, front projector is the only way not to screw-up the Hi-Fi (if your speaker can be 7-8' apart, of course). Even flat screens (Plasma and LCD) have an influence on stereo sound. They are generally at the tweeter level and produce reflexions.
Emmanuel
All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
In my experience, front projector is the only way not to screw-up the Hi-Fi (if your speaker can be 7-8' apart, of course). Even flat screens (Plasma and LCD) have an influence on stereo sound. They are generally at the tweeter level and produce reflexions.
Emmanuel
All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
Posted on: 22 December 2003 by John G.
This discussion has pushed me over the edge and I am now an official owner of a InFocus X1.
I can't get over how well it performs and has me thinking if I should even bother with a screen. I'm waiting for the mounting bracket to arrive and kind of have it setup up in a not so optimum way, but it still is wonderful.
It's set-up in 4:3 and the diagonal size in that format is 90". This is the size screen I plan on ordering soon, after a bit more research. The internet is wonderful for this kind of research.
I really like getting rid of the 32" from the room and the wall from which the 3 front channel speakers are. I'm on my way back down to the basement to join the kids who are watching Harry Potter. Cost so far, $975, much cheaper than the other alternative, by a long-shot. The size does matter, the perspective I'm seeing is very similar to a movie theatre at 11' feet away from the screen. I found this link interesting:
http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html
Cheers,
John
I can't get over how well it performs and has me thinking if I should even bother with a screen. I'm waiting for the mounting bracket to arrive and kind of have it setup up in a not so optimum way, but it still is wonderful.
It's set-up in 4:3 and the diagonal size in that format is 90". This is the size screen I plan on ordering soon, after a bit more research. The internet is wonderful for this kind of research.
I really like getting rid of the 32" from the room and the wall from which the 3 front channel speakers are. I'm on my way back down to the basement to join the kids who are watching Harry Potter. Cost so far, $975, much cheaper than the other alternative, by a long-shot. The size does matter, the perspective I'm seeing is very similar to a movie theatre at 11' feet away from the screen. I found this link interesting:
http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html
Cheers,
John
Posted on: 22 December 2003 by Simon Matthews
Well done John!
Mine is due to arrive tommorow morning.
Keep me posted with how you get the most from it. Out of interest did you get to dem the x1 against some of the competition? To be honest I let the briefest of dems and the recommendations of some people I really trust be my guide.
As regards to the screen, everyone tells me you get quite a lot more with one that purchase is practically essential. In for a penny and all that....
Mine is due to arrive tommorow morning.
Keep me posted with how you get the most from it. Out of interest did you get to dem the x1 against some of the competition? To be honest I let the briefest of dems and the recommendations of some people I really trust be my guide.
As regards to the screen, everyone tells me you get quite a lot more with one that purchase is practically essential. In for a penny and all that....
Posted on: 22 December 2003 by Simon Matthews
Thanks for the link as well. I will get approx a 28.5 degree view angle which is pretty near to the optimum 30 degrees. This is all quite fun. Got a popcorn machine yet?
Posted on: 22 December 2003 by John G.
quote:"
Originally posted by Simon Matthews:
Well done John!
"Mine is due to arrive tommorow morning."
Enjoy! It will keep you busy through the holidays.
"Keep me posted with how you get the most from it."
I figured out you have to have the unit upside down when ceiling mounting.
"Out of interest did you get to dem the x1 against some of the competition?"
I bought pretty much blindly as well after reading some of the comments here and other places, as well as talking to a few people in the business. For the price, it' pretty much a no brainer. It can also go back if I'm not happy with the results.
"To be honest I let the briefest of dems and the recommendations of some people I really trust be my guide." At least you got a dem.
"As regards to the screen, everyone tells me you get quite a lot more with one that purchase is practically essential. In for a penny and all that....
I guess I have a lot to look forward to then. This is the screen I'm looking at.
http://www.carada.com/detail.aspx?id=118
John
Posted on: 22 December 2003 by Jez Quigley
Just a note on connecting a digibox to a projector. I bought a SCART Sync Separator from www.maplins.co.uk for around 50gbp that plugs into the scart of my Nokia digibox, converts the signal, and outputs to a PC monitor type D plug for connection to the projector. Much better than S-Video or composite connections. If your projector/plasma/LCD has component inputs you can get a box that outputs Y-U-V for about 70gbp.
"Be my lover, don't cause me pain, just play me John Coltrane"
"Be my lover, don't cause me pain, just play me John Coltrane"
Posted on: 23 December 2003 by Steve G
The room that's going to be used for AV in our house isn't all that big at 16 foot by 12 foot. It's going to be dedicated to AV use so it doesn't need house anything other than the TV or screen, AV kits, sofas, a drinks chiller and a popcorn maker.
Is that likely to be too small to make having a projector worthwhile? To add to the complication the section of wall I'd need to project onto if going lengthwise down the room is only about 7ft wide (as it has a door through it to one side).
So three questions:
1) Is the room generally too small and therefore a 42" plasma a better option than a projector & screen?
2) Am I better having the TV/screen at an end or at the side of the room?
3) Is the sub-7ft section of wall too small for a useable screen?
What does a decent screen cost? Also what would a retractable (from the roof) screen cost as I could have one of those coming down in front of the door (it's only an extra bathroom behind).
Regards
Steve
Is that likely to be too small to make having a projector worthwhile? To add to the complication the section of wall I'd need to project onto if going lengthwise down the room is only about 7ft wide (as it has a door through it to one side).
So three questions:
1) Is the room generally too small and therefore a 42" plasma a better option than a projector & screen?
2) Am I better having the TV/screen at an end or at the side of the room?
3) Is the sub-7ft section of wall too small for a useable screen?
What does a decent screen cost? Also what would a retractable (from the roof) screen cost as I could have one of those coming down in front of the door (it's only an extra bathroom behind).
Regards
Steve
Posted on: 23 December 2003 by Simon Matthews
Steve
My room limitations mean that my 7 foot screen will cross a door opening a little. It's not ideal but ducking under the screen when I go for a pee is a minor trade off compared to the image size and fun/pound ratio a projector brings. An image a little less than 7 feet will still look great if that fits in with your domestic situation better.
With most projectors you will need around 14 feet distance between projector and screen to generate a 6-7 foot horizontal image (projector dependent).
As regards to screens you can get a manual basic pull down for about 130 pounds going all the way up to a black bordered, high gain, motorized, remote control number at 5 or 6 hundered.
My room limitations mean that my 7 foot screen will cross a door opening a little. It's not ideal but ducking under the screen when I go for a pee is a minor trade off compared to the image size and fun/pound ratio a projector brings. An image a little less than 7 feet will still look great if that fits in with your domestic situation better.
With most projectors you will need around 14 feet distance between projector and screen to generate a 6-7 foot horizontal image (projector dependent).
As regards to screens you can get a manual basic pull down for about 130 pounds going all the way up to a black bordered, high gain, motorized, remote control number at 5 or 6 hundered.
Posted on: 28 December 2003 by Don Atkinson
Sub-standard Projectors ?
I recently read an article that stated that plasma screens were graded at the production plant, mainly depending on how many dead pixcels they contained.
Those with no dead cells were then sold at top price, whilst those with progresively more dead cells were sold at various discounts.
Surprisingly?, I have never seen any retail outlet (ie dealer, shop, warehouse etc) making these alleged facts, clear.
Not unreasonably, it seems you get what you pay for. The only unreasonableness, is that retailers don't seem to make this clear.
I am now wondering whether any similar problems might exist with DLP or LCD projectors and whether this might account for the wide(ish) range in prices at different outlets?
Cheers
Don
I recently read an article that stated that plasma screens were graded at the production plant, mainly depending on how many dead pixcels they contained.
Those with no dead cells were then sold at top price, whilst those with progresively more dead cells were sold at various discounts.
Surprisingly?, I have never seen any retail outlet (ie dealer, shop, warehouse etc) making these alleged facts, clear.
Not unreasonably, it seems you get what you pay for. The only unreasonableness, is that retailers don't seem to make this clear.
I am now wondering whether any similar problems might exist with DLP or LCD projectors and whether this might account for the wide(ish) range in prices at different outlets?
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 29 December 2003 by tonym
For the last five years, I've enjoyed my viewing through a Seleco 310 CRT projector.
It's a huge great chunk of kit, & because we have very crooked ceilings and floors it was a nightmare to install. It sits up behind an oak beam so surprisingly it's relatively unobtrusive, much less than a TV set. The screen disappears up into the ceiling so the whole shooting match is nice & neat. It produces a 6 ft wide picture, even though there's only about eight ft from tubes to screen, a very difficult thing to achieve with DLP/LCD projectors.
The Seleco has come down only once, when I had it converted to accept Component video input. It has only been set up twice, after the original installation and after said conversion. We live in a sixteenth-century oak-framed building which moves in a strong wind, but the Seleco has maintained its convergence perfectly.
In my eternal quest for perfection (!) I've reviewed umpteen different viewing systems and projectors. I agree absolutely that anything less than a 5 ft wide picture just ain't Home Cinema, and for truly cinematic pictures you STILL can't beat CRT projectors. The Sim2 DLP jobs are pretty damn good, but to my eyes they're the video equivalent of up-front and attention grabbing Hi-Fi, which may be great at first listen but quickly becomes tiresome.
The only real answer is to audition, but if you want best value for money and you are prepared to pay for proper installation then a good refurbed CRT projector from Seleco, Sony or Barco simply must be the choice. Remember also that these projectors are designed for commercial use, so are incredibly robust and reliable.
It's a huge great chunk of kit, & because we have very crooked ceilings and floors it was a nightmare to install. It sits up behind an oak beam so surprisingly it's relatively unobtrusive, much less than a TV set. The screen disappears up into the ceiling so the whole shooting match is nice & neat. It produces a 6 ft wide picture, even though there's only about eight ft from tubes to screen, a very difficult thing to achieve with DLP/LCD projectors.
The Seleco has come down only once, when I had it converted to accept Component video input. It has only been set up twice, after the original installation and after said conversion. We live in a sixteenth-century oak-framed building which moves in a strong wind, but the Seleco has maintained its convergence perfectly.
In my eternal quest for perfection (!) I've reviewed umpteen different viewing systems and projectors. I agree absolutely that anything less than a 5 ft wide picture just ain't Home Cinema, and for truly cinematic pictures you STILL can't beat CRT projectors. The Sim2 DLP jobs are pretty damn good, but to my eyes they're the video equivalent of up-front and attention grabbing Hi-Fi, which may be great at first listen but quickly becomes tiresome.
The only real answer is to audition, but if you want best value for money and you are prepared to pay for proper installation then a good refurbed CRT projector from Seleco, Sony or Barco simply must be the choice. Remember also that these projectors are designed for commercial use, so are incredibly robust and reliable.