Home cinema projector
Posted by: Don Atkinson on 16 December 2003
Home cinema projector
Is it possible to buy a really good home cinema projector for less than £3,000 ?
(I don't think that a 50 inch plasma is big enough to get that 'cinema' effect.)
Whilst I appreciate that the audio part of AV is important, I have this feeling that the visual part is also important.
Cheers
Don
Is it possible to buy a really good home cinema projector for less than £3,000 ?
(I don't think that a 50 inch plasma is big enough to get that 'cinema' effect.)
Whilst I appreciate that the audio part of AV is important, I have this feeling that the visual part is also important.
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 29 December 2003 by Don Atkinson
Charlie,
Are you refering to CRT projects, or all projectors?
Cheers
Don
Are you refering to CRT projects, or all projectors?
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 29 December 2003 by gerni g.
hi don,
think charlie refers to lcd/dlp projectors, not crt.
these bulbs last around 2k hours. for watching tv every day you need every year a new bulb.
also after 1k hours the color reproduction/ light output fades.
with crt you can watch tv for 5 years without thinking about new tubes.
they last around 10k.
as tonym mentioned there´s no tweaking necesarry. this is due to good mechanical setup.
if so, you have almost no electronical drift.
mine doesn´t need realignement, too, and that for almost 2 years.
tonym is absolutly right about picture quality.
compare a lcd/dlp and a crt side by side.
the pic of the lcd/dlp will look artifical in some way. imho it´s like lp vs. cd.
also the contrast range/ light dynamics are unbeaten with crt. the other look like mere fireflys, except you spent big bucks.
but for this amount you can get a 9" crt machine. and that´s a different league.
happy new year,
gerni
think charlie refers to lcd/dlp projectors, not crt.
these bulbs last around 2k hours. for watching tv every day you need every year a new bulb.
also after 1k hours the color reproduction/ light output fades.
with crt you can watch tv for 5 years without thinking about new tubes.
they last around 10k.
as tonym mentioned there´s no tweaking necesarry. this is due to good mechanical setup.
if so, you have almost no electronical drift.
mine doesn´t need realignement, too, and that for almost 2 years.
tonym is absolutly right about picture quality.
compare a lcd/dlp and a crt side by side.
the pic of the lcd/dlp will look artifical in some way. imho it´s like lp vs. cd.
also the contrast range/ light dynamics are unbeaten with crt. the other look like mere fireflys, except you spent big bucks.
but for this amount you can get a 9" crt machine. and that´s a different league.
happy new year,
gerni
Posted on: 29 December 2003 by Allan Probin
Here's a nice little projector from Dell 3200MP. Has a bit more brightness and resolution than the X1 plus it has DVI input.
One thing to watch for with these 'presentation' projectors is the relatively long throw distance. To achieve a given image size the projector needs to be a long way back from the screen. In a small room or where the projector is relatively close to the screen it may be difficult to obtain the image size you want.
Allan
One thing to watch for with these 'presentation' projectors is the relatively long throw distance. To achieve a given image size the projector needs to be a long way back from the screen. In a small room or where the projector is relatively close to the screen it may be difficult to obtain the image size you want.
Allan
Posted on: 29 December 2003 by Manu
Allan,
This Dell is definitely a presentation projector, not a HT.
The figures for light and contrast are meaningless:
"* Bright 1,300 ANSI Lumens (Max)"
Max is the important word, in the note they say 918 average. And it is mesured with high color temp setting: unwatchabe movie image, doesn't matter for presentation.
"* sup high contrast ratio of 1800:1 (Full on/Full off)", here the words are full on/ full off. What happens with white and black in the same picture.
Hi res Video connections are not standard, you will have to buy a special cable.
The lens is quite poor.
And it is not a native 16:9
Don't go with that type of unit, it is not made for Home Theater. Would you buy a Diskman as your HiFi source?
The above also apply to the IBM/inFocus. Plus it has low resolution.
Emmanuel
All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
[This message was edited by Manu on TUESDAY 30 December 2003 at 04:42.]
[This message was edited by Manu on TUESDAY 30 December 2003 at 04:45.]
This Dell is definitely a presentation projector, not a HT.
The figures for light and contrast are meaningless:
"* Bright 1,300 ANSI Lumens (Max)"
Max is the important word, in the note they say 918 average. And it is mesured with high color temp setting: unwatchabe movie image, doesn't matter for presentation.
"* sup high contrast ratio of 1800:1 (Full on/Full off)", here the words are full on/ full off. What happens with white and black in the same picture.
Hi res Video connections are not standard, you will have to buy a special cable.
The lens is quite poor.
And it is not a native 16:9
Don't go with that type of unit, it is not made for Home Theater. Would you buy a Diskman as your HiFi source?
The above also apply to the IBM/inFocus. Plus it has low resolution.
Emmanuel
All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
[This message was edited by Manu on TUESDAY 30 December 2003 at 04:42.]
[This message was edited by Manu on TUESDAY 30 December 2003 at 04:45.]
Posted on: 29 December 2003 by Allan Probin
Hey Manu, I agree. The Dell suggestion was aimed at someone who wanted to set their sights just a little higher than the X1. Plus its only $1,600.
I've just sold my LCD projector, how much do you think a projector will cost that meets your minimum requirements for Home Theater ?
Allan
I've just sold my LCD projector, how much do you think a projector will cost that meets your minimum requirements for Home Theater ?
Allan
Posted on: 29 December 2003 by Manu
Difficult for me to talk prices (I'm in Canada). You can have a decent DLP HT projector for about US$5-6K.
But it depends on what you are coming from, which LCD was it? I imagine you want a better one.
Don't buy before demoing in good conditions.
My own minimum standards are quite high, I'm in the same kind of range as Naim. I'm impressed at what 3 chip DLPs can do now. Wait a few weeks, CES is coming with new products.
Emmanuel
All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
But it depends on what you are coming from, which LCD was it? I imagine you want a better one.
Don't buy before demoing in good conditions.
My own minimum standards are quite high, I'm in the same kind of range as Naim. I'm impressed at what 3 chip DLPs can do now. Wait a few weeks, CES is coming with new products.
Emmanuel
All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
Posted on: 29 December 2003 by John G.
quote:
Originally posted by RichardN:
Is http://www.technoworld.com/productdisplay.asp?ProductID=370%2D600%2DV300 a rebadged Infocus X1... Very similar specification and very similar looks.
3 year warranty and cheap as chips...
Yes it is. See this link, go to 1.3.
http://members.shaw.ca/technut/x1faq/
Posted on: 05 January 2004 by John G.
Now that I have the projector, screen and A/V stand installed I thought I'd post a link to a couple pictures of the setup. You can see the Infocus X1 mounted to the ceiling. The main bits are the Rotel AV receiver and DVD player, Linn Tukans for main speakers, Paradigm CC-370 center channel and Paradigm Atoms for surrounds which are mounted to the joists a bit back to the left and right of the projector. The AV and speaker stands are Sound Organisation.
The screen is a 76 inch 4:3 diagonal and is 11 feet from the main seating area. It provides a 26 degree viewing angle which is similar to what you would get toward the back of a THX movie theatre.
I've had the projector hooked up since Dec 22 and I already have over 65 hours on the bulb. I can't get over the impact and scale that a larger screen provides. You can really understand that this is the scale for which most DVD's were designed.
John
My Home Theatre
The screen is a 76 inch 4:3 diagonal and is 11 feet from the main seating area. It provides a 26 degree viewing angle which is similar to what you would get toward the back of a THX movie theatre.
I've had the projector hooked up since Dec 22 and I already have over 65 hours on the bulb. I can't get over the impact and scale that a larger screen provides. You can really understand that this is the scale for which most DVD's were designed.
John
My Home Theatre
Posted on: 06 January 2004 by Simon Matthews
John.
I have been using my new X1 for over a week now and have to say that I think it is an absolute bargain for the money. The picture quality is really excellent with a very smooth, sharp and well balanced image and great colours.
The size of the picture is really what takes projection to places plasma and crt cannot. I am really happy with the result I have managed but still intend to investigate one of the set up dvd's to squeeze another few percent out, especially with regard to the blackness of blacks.
My flat has now become west londons latest cinema venue for my friends and without exception they are all amazed at the quality which can be achieved at this price point.
I have been using my new X1 for over a week now and have to say that I think it is an absolute bargain for the money. The picture quality is really excellent with a very smooth, sharp and well balanced image and great colours.
The size of the picture is really what takes projection to places plasma and crt cannot. I am really happy with the result I have managed but still intend to investigate one of the set up dvd's to squeeze another few percent out, especially with regard to the blackness of blacks.
My flat has now become west londons latest cinema venue for my friends and without exception they are all amazed at the quality which can be achieved at this price point.
Posted on: 06 January 2004 by John G.
Simon,
Glad to hear your enjoying your new purchase. Finding Nemo has a THX video setup for adjusting the contrast and brightness. Mines set at contrast = 45, brightness = 65.
John
Glad to hear your enjoying your new purchase. Finding Nemo has a THX video setup for adjusting the contrast and brightness. Mines set at contrast = 45, brightness = 65.
John
Posted on: 06 January 2004 by Simon Matthews
Cheers for that.
Have you played with sharpness, colour warmth, individual colour settings, etc?
Have you played with sharpness, colour warmth, individual colour settings, etc?
Posted on: 06 January 2004 by John G.
quote:
Originally posted by Simon Matthews:
Cheers for that.
Have you played with sharpness, colour warmth, individual colour settings, etc?
Not a whole lot. The THX video setup has adjustments for them as well but those settings didn't seem to need to be altered from the standard film settings. I'm no expert, but most DVD's look pretty damn nice.
The audio portion of the system sounds a whole lot better now that the center channel is on a much more rigid support at the right height and the components are on a proper AV stand with spikes. Before the center channel was on top of a 32 inch plastic Sony TV on a wood stand with castors. Getting the bulky TV that was sitting between the two speakers out of the room was I'm sure a big plus as well.
My concert DVD collection continues to grow.
Posted on: 06 January 2004 by Manu
John,
Congrats for your purchase. May I give you some comments on your set-up:
Your screen seems to be placed too high.
You should place your gears elsewhere:
The lights are distracting,
It would also help you place the center channel lower, and avoid its vibrations to reach your electronics.
The lower 1/3 high of the screen should be at the same high as your eyes.
Buy the Video Essential DVD to setup your HT, it has step by step tests for audio and video. Well worth the 10-15ukp it costs.
Emmanuel
All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
Congrats for your purchase. May I give you some comments on your set-up:
Your screen seems to be placed too high.
You should place your gears elsewhere:
The lights are distracting,
It would also help you place the center channel lower, and avoid its vibrations to reach your electronics.
The lower 1/3 high of the screen should be at the same high as your eyes.
Buy the Video Essential DVD to setup your HT, it has step by step tests for audio and video. Well worth the 10-15ukp it costs.
Emmanuel
All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
Posted on: 07 January 2004 by John G.
quote:
Originally posted by Manu:
"John,
Congrats for your purchase. May I give you some comments on your set-up:
Your screen seems to be placed too high."
----------------------------------------------
I realize the screen height is not ideal, but to me it's not that big of a deal. I lived with just the projector for the first two weeks and experimented with it's height on the wall and found that having it lower did seem a bit nicer, but a compromise had to be made to have it tall enough as to not be in the way of the AV stand/center channel speaker and the Tukans on either side. I also wanted to have the flexibility to bring the main L/R speakers closer together, as well.
-----------------------------------------------
"You should place your gears elsewhere:
The lights are distracting,"
The flourescent lights on the Rotel DVD player and AV reciever can be turned off. I've had the Rotel units for the last year and it never occurred to me to shut them off when playing a movie. I actually sat down this morning and went through the manual to find out how to do it. The DVD player has a button on the front of the unit. To shut the display off on the reciever you hold down the menu button for 3 seconds and it shuts off. I noticed the display lighting back up when I adjusted the volume control but it quickly shutoff when the button was released.
-----------------------------------------------
"It would also help you place the center channel lower,"
Now this I don't understand other than to get it out of the way of the screen. The top of my Tukan cabinet is 36 inches tall, the top of the center channel is probably four inches below that. I would think that having the three front speakers at a similar height would be a good thing.
" and avoid its vibrations to reach your electronics."
I'm not sure what the effect of having the center channel speaker on the same rack as the rest of the gear, but I do know the audio part of the system sounds much better than it did before when I was using a wooden rack with castors on the bottom with the 32 inch Sony sitting on top of that and the center channel sitting ontop of the Sony with four blobs of bluetack between the top of the tv and the speaker.
Right now I am getting much better fidelity than what I was acheiving from my previous set-up, which really didn't sound that bad. The center channel is now more rigid and it's at a better height than it was before. The Sound Org rack is more of a purpose built rack than what I was using before and it accomodates all four boxes I have as well as the center channel speaker and keeps everything at a reasonable height. I have applied a similar method as Mana in regards to mounting the center channel speaker that I think reduces the infuence of the speaker on the rest of the gear. I'm pretty sure SO thought this out a bit as well as this stand was intended to be used in the manner.
"Buy the Video Essential DVD to setup your HT, it has step by step tests for audio and video. Well worth the 10-15ukp it costs."
Thanks for that, I'll see if I can get my hands on a copy. I have run through the THX audio/video setup provided in the Nemo DVD and things look/sound pretty nice. I did have to make some adjustments to the contrast and brightness, the colors didn't seem to need adjustment and a few of the tests required some kind of blue glasses that I don't have in order to adjust the tint, ect.
Right now I'm just enjoying the setup as is, which is a huge leap from what I had before. I just can't get over how cheap this system was to put together and how much better it is to watch movies, concert videos and sporting events with the bigger viewing angle. I guess that's why people go to movie theatres, attend concerts and sporting events. ;-)
Best Regards,
John
Posted on: 07 January 2004 by Manu
For the center channel, you should try; my comment comes from the fact that most centers are made to shout upward or downward, rarely at ears level. They sound harch at ears level. So try to move it.
It is easy to better a center speaker on top of a plastic TV: remove the TV, as you have done.
The Video Essential DVD can be purchased at the Stereophile Guide To Home Theater web site for US$25.
SGHT web site
The package include 3 filters to adjust colors. And a bonus DTS sampler.
Emmanuel
All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
It is easy to better a center speaker on top of a plastic TV: remove the TV, as you have done.
The Video Essential DVD can be purchased at the Stereophile Guide To Home Theater web site for US$25.
SGHT web site
The package include 3 filters to adjust colors. And a bonus DTS sampler.
Emmanuel
All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
Posted on: 12 January 2004 by John G.
quote:
Originally posted by Manu:
"For the center channel, you should try; my comment comes from the fact that most centers are made to shout upward or downward, rarely at ears level. They sound harsh at ears level. So try to move it."
My center channel speaker doesn't aim upward much at all, I'm also not getting any harshness. Probably has to do with good components upstream as well as good setup. I'm leaving well enough alone.
"The Video Essential DVD can be purchased at the Stereophile Guide To Home Theater web site for US$25."
I've got one on order from Circuit City, they were selling it for $19.95 plus free shipping, hope to get it soon, will report back. ;-)
Emmanuel
All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
BTW, I have also updated the link to my pictures that show a major improvement I have made to room that greatly enhances the video portion of the setup, cost $20.
Cheers,
John
My Home Theatre
Posted on: 07 February 2004 by Steve G
I went into Sevenoaks today having the Screenplay 4800 at the top of my list. After demos I eventually ordered an Optoma H30, also a DLP projector and for the same price. It was very impressive in the demo and I didn't see any evidence of the "rainbow" issue I'd heard DLP projects can suffer from.
The room it's going into is pretty much finished so I might be able to make a start with the installation next weekend - can't wait!
The room it's going into is pretty much finished so I might be able to make a start with the installation next weekend - can't wait!
Posted on: 07 February 2004 by Manu
Rainbow effect is no longer an issue with most of today DLP projectors.
Emmanuel
All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
Emmanuel
All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
Posted on: 07 February 2004 by John G.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve G:
I went into Sevenoaks today having the Screenplay 4800 at the top of my list. After demos I eventually ordered an Optoma H30, also a DLP projector and for the same price. It was very impressive in the demo and I didn't see any evidence of the "rainbow" issue I'd heard DLP projects can suffer from.
The room it's going into is pretty much finished so I might be able to make a start with the installation next weekend - can't wait!
Hi Steve,
Sounds like you picked a winner. You'll have to post a picture of the room when you're finished. Glad to hear you went with FP, since I got my setup, I think I've put more hours on the projector than my Hi-Fi which coming from me is pretty bizzare.
Cheers,
John
PS So your the Steve from the Mana forum. Are you doing anything special with the supports for the HT?
Posted on: 07 February 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by John Gilleran:
PS So your the Steve from the Mana forum. Are you doing anything special with the supports for the HT?
I've got a couple of spare racks lying around at the moment and I think I'll be using one of them. It's a Stands Unique one that I've had for a while but not been too impressed with for hi-fi use. I've used it with AV before and it's ok for that.
If I get any more Mana it'll be soundstages for my hi-fi setup, but currently I'm happy enough with 3 phase-2 stacks.
What are you using under your AV setup?
Regards
Steve
Posted on: 07 February 2004 by John G.
I'm using a Sound Organisation A/V stand, works out pretty nice, better than the wooden TV stand I was using before. I agree with you on how I would budget my Mana.
Enjoy your video setup.
Regards,
John
Enjoy your video setup.
Regards,
John
Posted on: 10 February 2004 by John G.
Here's some updated pictures of my Home Theatre as well as my Hi-Fi system which is also in the basement.
Enjoy!
Home Theatre and Hi-Fi
Enjoy!
Home Theatre and Hi-Fi
Posted on: 02 March 2004 by Steve G
My home cinema is nearing completion. This evening I've installed the screen and played around with speaker placement so I can lay all the cables before the carpets go in.
Can't wait to get the thing up and running now!
Can't wait to get the thing up and running now!
Posted on: 02 March 2004 by blythe
Errr, when the screen's in place, how do you get in or out of the room?
Apart from that, it looks great!
What is the set-up and what projector etc?
Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......
Apart from that, it looks great!
What is the set-up and what projector etc?
Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......
Posted on: 02 March 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by blythe:
Errr, when the screen's in place, how do you get in or out of the room?
The door isn't the access into the room, it just leads to a dressing room and an en-suite bathroom (the extension was designed as a master bedroom suite but we're using it for AV). There is another bathroom just outside the other end of the room if anyone needs!
quote:
Apart from that, it looks great!
What is the set-up and what projector etc?
Projector: Optima Themescene H30
Screen: 7ft wide Draper Luma
DVD: Pioneer DV565A
Amp: Denon 2803
Speakers: Acoustic Energy Aegis Evo 3B
Subwoofer: REL Quake
I haven't decided whether to go 5.1 or 7.1 yet. I'm going to experiment with a spare pair of speakers before I decide whether to get speakers for the side walls.
Regards
Steve