Bi-amp with 140's? Is it done? Should it be?

The Mystiques will love a 250.
But if you want, you can plug 2 140 on the hicap.
Your question makes me think you have pluged your 140 to the 72 4-pin din. If it is the case, you should not. See the connection guide on this site or have a look at your 72 or Hicap user manual.

Connection guide
Your 72 must be pluged like a 112 or 102.

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.

Onlythat,

Yes it can be done, consult your dealer or Naim to find out how it can be done.

However you would be better off by upgrading to either a 250 or the 180. There is a theory that two amps BI-amped will not sound as good as the next amp up therefore two 140's will not sound as good as a 180 or a 250.

Best to go with convention and go for that 250.

Regards

NB

I must admit Manu-- I have no clue how there could be any OTHER connection method. My 72 has a port that says "hi-cap" and one that says 'amp' or 'out' or whatever. I think those ports are getting fed exactly what they say they are.

The rest say things like 'tape' 'cd' etc. There's another way to connect things? And with the exception of plugging my CDP into "tape" output because someone said it would be better, I think those are getting fed what THEY say.

Damn. Maybe I have more to learn about this than I think.

[This message was edited by onlythat on SUNDAY 23 March 2003 at 17:04.]

Only that:

You have your system hooked up incorrectly.

unplug the amplifier from the pre-amp and plug it into one of the 4 pin sockets of the hicap. The 4 pin socket that says "amp" or "out" or whatever on the 72 should be empty. Only the "to hicap" socket should be used.

Now you are ready to go. If you want to add another 140, simply plug it into another one of the sockets of the hicap.

Having tried bi-amping with a pair of 180's, I can tell you it is a total waste of time. Better to sit tight or save for a 250.

Judd

Wait--- before I consider myself a COMPLETE IDIOT-- (usually that's my girlfriend's job-- I'd hate to steal it from her-- prior to that it was my father's, but my therapist helped me with that one), let me check my system.

I dont remember what the configuration is-- I am speaking from memory clouded by logic-- and I am unfortunately at work now.

Once I get home I will determine the extent of my ignorance and rehook if necessary.

What if it IS hooked up the "incorrect" way-- does than mean I am not getting the full extent of my hi-cap?? Or what does it effect? The 72 would still be running off the Hi-cap, no??

David

PS-- incidentally-- may I add that NAIM must be brilliant, really-- what other company's equipment would even WORK AT ALL if you hooked it up "the wrong way?!" High praise over.

I am ashamed to admit that the 140 WAS plugged in to the pre-out on the 72.

The Hi cap was in its correct place on the 72 (I went home for lunch briefly!)

So I plugged the 140 into the Hi-Cap as instructed into its 'amp 1' socket. While doing this I noticed an 'amp 2' socket.

So THAT's how you bi-amp!

But I still want to know Justin-- what have I been losing out on (if anything) sonically by this incorrect plugging??? Am I not hearing my Hi-cap or all it has to offer or what???

Cause things sounded great to me as it was!

David

[This message was edited by onlythat on SUNDAY 23 March 2003 at 19:09.]

i tried to biamp 140 a few yrs back--intially si=ounds impressive-better speaker control esp when loud--but after a while u notice a lot is missing--and when I reverted back to 140 I noticed the timing and desire to listen returned
With chrome bumper 250 or 180's at £500-600 or 160 at £350(serviced)--not a good move IMHO
Also can the £'s improve preamp
Regards Richard

David,

if you plug a HiCap into the 5-pin socket & a 140 into the 4-pin socket then some of the circuits will have been receiving 12V from both the NAP140 & the HiCap at the same time.

I don't think this would have caused a major problem (2x12V in parallel is still 12V) but you are now running the system as you should.

If it's a very old HiCap you *must* make sure to plug the NAP140 into the correct 4-pin socket of the HiCap, otherwise you will cause damage. Older HiCaps put 12V onto some of the 4-pin sockets, and in this case you're not running them in paralle, you're running them against each other. (If it says to connect amp into that socket, should be fine).

cheers, Martin

E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com

Actually Martin,

The preamp supplies in the hicap and 140 supply 24 volts each, not 12. In any event, you are indeed correct in your conclusion.

The 72 has two power rails. When drived by a hicap, each power rail is driven by a seperate (independant) regulated 24 VDC line supplied by the hicap. When run with only a 140, a special plug inserted into the five pin socket on the back of the 72 "ties" the two rails together so that a single 24 VDC supply (ie, that from a power amp) can power both rails simultaneously.

The way Onlythat had it hooked up put a single 24 VDC supply (from the hicap) on one rail and two paralell 24 VDC supplies (one from the hicap; one from the 140) on the other rail.

Here's what I would guess the official line would be (only a guess):

Two problems with running it the way Onlythat had it:

1. The 140 supply is noisy compared to the hicap supply. Because the 140 supply was "in circuit" you lose the benefit of the low noise supply provided by the hicap.

2. Because the signal and ground are not routed through the hicap on thier way to the amp, you create a ground loop.

There may be more reasons this is no good. I'm just guessing.

Judd

It is (fortunately) a new Hi-cap (serial 170 thousand something I think) and one of the ports (closest to the cable going to the Hi-cap) is labeled 'amp 1 passive' (that's where I plugged the 140) or something, and the other says 'amp 2 passive' or words to that effect. Another off the the side says "aux"

Well this IS exciting though-- Perhaps I can have an 'upgrade' without actually buying anything!!

We shall see next time I get a chance to listen.

Thanks a lot for the info. Live and learn.

I can only imadgine u have had the mother of all earth loops with your 72 getting 2x24v both rails from hicap and 1x12v both rails from 140.I can only imagine the resulting improvement would be spectacular
Logic would suggest ?damage to something--but if it's all working!
Perhaps a quick call to Naim at Salisbury or US NANA would be worthwhile
Regards Richard

"But I still want to know Justin-- what have I been losing out on (if anything) sonically by this incorrect plugging??? Am I not hearing my Hi-cap or all it has to offer or what???"

...pop in a CD and find out

Its fun to read what people say should happen, or say what usually happens, but you can do the dem.

Let us know

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Hi there. Called NANA the other day and spoke with the gentlemanly Chris West. He told me he wasn't to concerned about anything being damaged, but if anything were to be damaged it might be the Hi-cap.

He also recommended I send everything in to get re-capped and he would check out everything when doing so.

Now this is a real dilemma-- do you spend all that money recapping or do you just sell and buy, say, a 250 etc.

Also-- what the heck do you listen to while it's all at NANA for like a month???? Does everyone who does this have a spare amp/pre or something???

david

Onlythat,

Don't worry about it is good advice. I had my system set up as you did for about 6 months before I decided to check out why it didn't quite sound as it used too (I blamed it on the new room). When I checked the connection guide, I realized that I had 72 into hicap and 72 into 140. Doh! No harm done, except to my pride.

It is amazing the difference that the hi-cap makes to the 72/140 combo!

Colin

Well Sonofcolin, I definitely heard a huge improvement when I hooked the Hi up initially-- even connected "wrong"!!

Also, "to" should read "too" in the phrase "He told me he wasn't to concerned..." from my earlier post. (Sorry, but I was an English major in university. I can't stand to leave this as is and you can't edit posts this long after posting. Therefore I must correct it posthumously).

And thanks Sonof.., your experience definitely makes me feel better. Perhaps I'll hold off on sending everything to NANA for a check-up. It seems to sound just fine, but I haven't had the time for an extended listen as yet.

David

Sometimes it may be best to leave things "wrong."

I hate to say this, but with the system now connected "right" my NEATs sound like a pair of Kans.

This is not good. (no offense). They seem to have much less bass than they did. However, I DID notice what seemed to be improvements in speed and detail (maybe just due to lack of bass?).

Where the hell is the bass? Did I break something after all???

This causes me to wonder if you can 'half-break' NAIM stuff. You know-- can you damage it sufficiently for it not to be as good in ways as before-- or if it's really broken, you would know immediately???

Like a woofer I mean-- if it's broken-- you know it immediately-- it wont play!