Naim DAC

quote:

Originally posted by SC:
Why are we suddenly in Distributed Audio when the majority of this thread was regarding digital out from CDP....?

Probably because the gallery won't stop talking about streamers. I tried to get it back on track. It is what it is. It should be discussed in that context.

And what context would that be...? A CDP upgrade, yeah ?

quote:

Originally posted by AllenB:

quote:

Originally posted by gary1 (US):

quote:

Originally posted by AS332:

quote:

Originally posted by AllenB:

Let's get away from this misnomer of a £2k unit. Realistically speaking, to reach the levels of performance being spoken about, you need to add the XPS2 PSU minimum. That makes it a £4.5k (approx) proposition.

Exactly Allen , for this amount of money it has to exceptionally good and blow the competition out of the water .Even then it is still a lot of money .

Actually, I think you need to hear how the DAC performs before you can judge its performance and VFM. If the DAC outperforms your current solution by a substantial amount then the extra $2k becomes worth the expense to some individuals and not others, So while you might need to add the XPS2/555PS to get the most out of the DAC, it doesn't mean that the stand alone isn't going to be a big improvement over what you've got.

That's b*ll*x Gary1. Does that mean that if the new DAC out-performs the DAC in your HDX, you will be selling your 555PS? Of course not. It's not 2K, it's £4.5 k minimum (with PSU). Forget what I've got, that comparison will be made when it's possible to do so, let's for now concentrate on the perceived performance levels coming out of the roadshow demos, and the costs involved in getting those levels.

And that's bull too. If it outperforms whatever else is out there as a DAC for the price, it will be a success without any add ons and there's no way to know until it's finished which it obviously is not and auditioned. That it can be made better with add ons has no bearing on it's stand alone performance. Of course if it can be made better with a 555ps, you would go that route if you already owned the supply. That's very different than needing it to be good. You're very determined to push this needing supply aspect when we have no clue whether that is remotely the case.

It's also too early to even evaluate it's performance from auditions. It's encouraging that the reports are good and I'm sure it wont get worse as approaching production but this isn't finished and it was even reported in another thread that a tech was fiddling about with one before the show.

quote:

Originally posted by SC:
And what context would that be...? A CDP upgrade, yeah ?

Stand alone DAC. Stream from computer or upgrade a streamer or CDP. The point is that if you like a transporter you can still use one into this DAC if you feel there's an improvement and have everything you want. For us that used DACs before the days of streaming, it does make sense. A DAC like this can improve numerous sources including those not hooked up to a network.

quote:

Adam has edited one of the above posts to say that current CDPs will not be retro-fittable with the dig out. So where does that leave current CDP owners?

With the same CDP that I have always had and very good it is too. The new DAC will come in to its in allowing me to play music in new formats.

Sooner or later Naim would bring out an improved CDX2; that was always likely to be the case. That this new model has a digital out means it can be used as a transport or stand-alone player, what's the issue?

I've not heard any computer audio system or stand alone DAC that I would want to use instead of my CDX2. I've not heard the HDX or the new Naim DAC. I know other people prefer the computer audio route and that's fine; though one or two do find the need to evangelise about it which I don't understand. There is a choice so simply choose what suits best.

Cost is a strange factor; as I already have a CDX2 then the cost to me of continuing to use it is zero. If I wanted to upgrade (as I've not heard it then I've no idea whether it would be an upgrade) then I could probably part-exchange my CDP player for a Naim transport and use the new DAC with my 555PS so it would be a modest (in high end hi-fi terms) cost. There is unlikely to be any comparable option at anywhere near the price that would achieve the same level of satisfaction for me.

So I'm mystified by some comments on the new Naim products; they seem pretty spot-on to me. If I were buying a new CDP now then a CDX2 would be high on my list and that it had a digital output I would seen as an added extra not as a downside.

However, my first item to listen to will be the NaimUniti as this seems ideal for an office system and promises to give better performance than simply adding a DAC to a computer; when I hear it then my conjecture will be confirmed or otherwise. If it does outperform a MacLavry set-up then I'll buy it; if it doesn't then I'll probably think carefully about my office set-up and perhaps just wait a bit, but I very much suspect it will.

ATB Rotf

I know - I have the one with the built-in DAC and VAM 1250 so I'm OK

I wrote a very balanced and well considered argument to explain why the original CDX2 was a bargain and sounded better than these johnny come lately upstarts - please click here

ATB Rotf

What about a CDX2 with a digital-in?

I find all this story about new CDPs and DACs very confusing.

I still think DACs are mainly aimed for computer audio. It is very disappointing to see that it is not being demoed with a Mac/PC at the Summer Show.

IMO the Naim DAC should be designed to squeeze the maximum from computers. Many competitors have already taken that direction with different approaches (asynchronous USB, Firewire, AES/EBU input for compatibility with pro audio devices...)

Until now, we just really know that the DAC's performance might be superior to a bare CDX2-HDX. Poor info for many potential buyers!

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:
What about a CDX2 with a digital-in?

A preamp with a digital in makes more sense, no?

You mean the AV3 then...?!

quote:

Originally posted by SC:
Why are we suddenly in Distributed Audio when the majority of this thread was regarding digital out from CDP....?

Because that's what people in the 00’s want. People + I have been screaming for a proper streamer without the bells and whistles. It is frustrating that Naim is so close to a pure streamer but yet released 2 streamers that include things that nobody wants except people who are still anchored to their CD players.

Well my opinion is that Naim CD players are perfectly poifect where they are and do not really need any external help except for PS upgrades. At least that is what we have been “brought up” to believe. Despite being very happy with my Transporter, I recently bought my last (Naim) CD player for nostalgic reason, and it sounded fantastic. If I could only have a streamer that sounds like that.

Like some other not-so-middle-aged Naim crowd I am comfortable in both the old fart CD and streamer camps. And the best gift for me is a proper Naim streamer with none of that all-in-one receiver BS built in.

A Naim Dac would be good, but we need that streamer more. Frankly, I suspect that the Naim DAC would expose Naim to a very level playing field.

You may have slightly misunderstood me JYOW...

I totally agree with you and the points re a streamer, the use of the future DAC etc etc...I have been saying much the same....As I wrote back on pg.2, taking a DAC around the country and linking it up to a CDP of all things to demonstrate improved performance is preaching to the converted as far as I can see...

The point I was making above was regarding the thread being moved to the DA room - presumably as the DAC as a device is to be classified and 'seen' as such by Naim (or Adam) - when in fact the irony was that the majority of the thread was involving discussion on new digital out sockets on the CDPs...Not exactly distributed audio IMHO....!

Steve

Sorry SC I did misunderstand your previous post. I didn't read carefully enough before responding.

From your post I guess you feel similarly as I do. These are changing times and I think Naim is trying keep all their options open. IMO they risk losing focus.

I sincerely hope their DAC development was not triggered by the commotion, or should I say, love fest of a certain DAC. I hope they have a much bigger vision, and shoot much higher.

quote:

Originally posted by JYOW:
A Naim Dac would be good, but we need that streamer more. Frankly, I suspect that the Naim DAC would expose Naim to a very level playing field.

Who needs a streamer? I have several streaming devices already! Leave the computing to the computers and the audio to the hi-fi. DAC please. I'm ecstatic that Naim is releasing a standalone DAC.

Computers are inherently noisy electromechanically.

I am also happy that Naim is releasing a DAC. I will be happier if they come up with a pure streamer too.

Please, Naim did not develop their DAC in response to another forum approved DAC.

I suspect that Naim waited until they could make it the way they wanted it to sound and also work in concert with other offerings they were coming out with such as the HDX, CDX2.

I'm sure they could have released a 1K DAC earlier just to have something on the market, but why bother. People like Naim because they usually get it right when a new product is released.

How many other companies would develop their new product lines with a mind to the old and build it in such a way that many components eg. PSUs can be "re-cycled"

If the CDX2 was re-released without dig out, but was significantly better than the previous model would there be such a commotion?

Naim is giving everyone alot of versatility. Many people with CD players such as the 5i and CD5x (or who don't own Naim at this time) will want to upgrade and are also interested in computer based solutions as well and have no desire to rip their significant CD collections.

Now you can get a great CD player, also upgrade its performance and have a computer based solution for downloaded file purchases. This seems ideal.

The only thing better would be if the new CDX2 had an ethernet in for streaming as well as dig out. I don't know about electronics and therefore cannot comment as to why Naim did or didn't pursue this option.

I don't think Naim is aiming at the 50 people on the forum who want an "upgraded L****"

quote:

Originally posted by AllenB:

quote:

Originally posted by gary1 (US):
Please, Naim did not develop their DAC in response to another forum approved DAC.

I don't think Naim is aiming at the 50 people on the forum who want an "upgraded L****"

Please Gary1, just get over your hang up with the Lavry. That is not what is at stake here ... well not just yet anyway.
department

AllenB,

I'm not hung up on the Lavry at all. The fact is that it is pretty evident from the posts that for you and others this is the benchmark with which you are comparing for cost, features, performance, etc...

Instead of commenting on what the Naim DAC does or doesn't have why don't you just wait to hear one with your Mac and then determine whether it's right for you based upon whatever criteria you choose.

It's funny how often the tone of the forum changes around 3 to 5 pm? (BST .......ahem)

A nice exchange of views , good forum stuff .

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:
What about a CDX2 with a digital-in?

A preamp with a digital in makes more sense, no?

Only if it has a DAC

quote:

Originally posted by AllenB:

quote:

Originally posted by gary1 (US):

AllenB,

I'm not hung up on the Lavry at all. The fact is that it is pretty evident from the posts that for you and others this is the benchmark with which you are comparing for cost, features, performance, etc...

No it is not, you are categorically wrong.

My comments are borne out of the few reports of the roadshow, the benchmark currently being CDS3/555PS against HDX & new CDX2 teamed up with the new DAC. There's precious little other information because Naim are not demoing it with a PC/Mac.

Now why is that?

This is a very good question, but unfortunately it seems we will have to wait for reading users opinions about how the DAC works with a PC/MAC!

The questions remains open, we have to go on speculating since Naim doesn't bring more details about it.

Will be the new DAC relatively insensitive to the transport used?
Which technology is used to cope with jitter?
Which digital inputs will bring the final version of the DAC?

On the other hand, HDX users can be very happy now they know Naim offers a nice upgrade for it.

I'm curious with regard to the upcoming DAC, of course, but I already have an EMM Labs DAC2 that I use with my transport. Playing the HDX thru it sounds good - a different sound than the HDX on it's own, not necessarily better. So, I muse, if finances permit, do I buy the Naim DAC? Hmmm...

quote:

Originally posted by AllenB:
Still not had a response from the manufacturer as to why the new DAC has been put into a 5 series case with equivalent on-board power supply, when the product is being matched up with components in reference series cases at the roadshow?

Perhaps someone going to a roadshow event can ask the question direct. Please!!

Considering that the new products are likely to have the brush metal fascia, it seems a reasonable assumption to think that the 5 series DAC is a temporary move.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenB:

quote:

Originally posted by gary1 (US):

AllenB,

I'm not hung up on the Lavry at all. The fact is that it is pretty evident from the posts that for you and others this is the benchmark with which you are comparing for cost, features, performance, etc...

No it is not, you are categorically wrong.

My comments are borne out of the few reports of the roadshow, the benchmark currently being CDS3/555PS against HDX & new CDX2 teamed up with the new DAC. There's precious little other information because Naim are not demoing it with a PC/Mac.

Now why is that?

They don't make PCs?

I'll quote the 1st paragraph of the Uniti blurb:

You've probably noticed; audio has exploded. Along with listening to CDs and radio, we can now download audio, stream audio across networks, broadcast audio across WiFi, store audio on memory sticks and, with iPods, drop audio into our pockets. And if that wasn't enough, vinyl is definitely back on the menu.

Obviously, the DAC offers many of the same attributes at a better quality - would have made sense to demonstrate that I would have thought.....

quote:

Originally posted by js:
They don't make PCs?

No, but they employ one in the HDX. I would surmise that the use of the HDX computer gives them more consistency and higher quality than the majority of Macintosh or PC platforms for the purpose of demonstrating their DAC at these events. It is a known commodity and a reference of its own for many users.

If there was a different PC/Mac at each of these events with myriad configurations including differing rip quality, there would be even more idiotic blathering and conjecture on this forum.

It is nice to get some advance feedback on these products but as always, the decision will have to be made by individuals with their own cash in the context of their own systems, present and future, and musical predilections.