CDS3 on home demo

Posted by: Ron Toolsie on 28 April 2003

This happened yesterday afternoon, thanks to a visit from Chris Koster from NANA. Upon arrival he gently removed it from its flight case (a custom built padded suitcase, and NOT part of its normal vestage) revealing it to be on the handsome side of the Naim CD line- although still utilitarian in construct. The center-well location of the transport was also a refreshing change. I did not get to feel the heft as swapping the CDS3 in and out was managed by Chris K.

Before we even plugged in the S3, Chris surveyed the room and his gaze almost immediately fixed on the DBLs. Shock, horror.... when I had installed phase 2 of the Soundbases I had neglected to make sure they were parallel to the back wall, and they had been toed OUTWARDS, the worst possible implementation. With an additional pair of hands (and arms, and back) restoring them to their favored placement was almost trivial. Then it was time to listen to a few disks with the S2. On came JWs The Hunter, track 2. Damn... this sounds GOOOOD, warm, creamy spacious, PR&T. Maybe I didn't need the S3 after all, only to have untoed the DBLs so that they fired straight back.

The S3 stepped up to the plate and was plugged in to the XPS2 with the regular (not Super)Black Burndy. It had been unplugged and unpowered prior to this. Same disk, same track.
Yes, same track, but entirely different in sound. The sonic signature is very different to the S2, and readily noticeable within the first few bars of the music. A far less colored presentation, crisper, more dynamic, more inflective, more holistic. I made my mind up to order one after about 30 seconds into the first track.
Next up was Nirvanas Unplugged. The ambience of the room and audience was apparent not only in the dead spaces between tracks but during the entire piece of music, even when it got loud. Things sounded spookily like a live performance. The ability to retain the soft subliminal cues during the fortissimos was enticing. Indeed this is EXACTLY the same thing the separated the LP12 from any other players back in the 1970s and 1980s. I thought all was pretty close to perfect, but no....CK strolled over to the DBLs, proclaiming the right one to be tonally 'off'. The grills were removed and the ancient mystical art of checking the suspension bounce of the decoupled tweeters employed. AHA.... they both failed to bounce when perturbed, itself a perturbing finding. This necessitated removed of both tweeters and finding the right amount of coiling of the hookupwires they were connected to. Which in a way exactly mirrors the tension of the tonearm wiring and P-clippage that makes or breaks a LP12. It took maybe 10 minutes and then both tweeters mechanically met CKs seal of satisfaction.
Nirvana was then called back to the stage, and YES.....a harsh subliminal buzzing texture to the upper frequencies was replaced with silky detail and rather more insight. Until then I had been running Boxed Loudspeakers, rather than Decoupled Box Loudspeakers. The final tweak was to pick apart the bundle of NACA5 cables (six wide of course) and horizontally desegregate them. Yet another improvement, although not as large as the attentions paid to the tweeter suspension.

Every piece of music from then on was an active experience. One of the worst remasterings on disk is Van Morrisons Moondance. Why Warner Brothers have failed to reissue this (not to mention Astral Weeks, FMs Rumors, the Doobies The Captain and Me)is beyond me. Even on this murky rolled off mastering Van the Man was sublime. The guitar tag team of Jansch and Renbourne on Pentangle's Sweet Child was captivating. Ahmad Jamals piano attack on the Naim disk entirely realistic. And on it goes.. disk after disk.

I would say this would end the debate of CDS1 vs CDS2. Those few who preferred the drive and flat earth signature of the original CDS1 will find it vastly bettered by the CDS3. Likewise the proponents of soundstaging and inner detail will also find the S3 shows the S2 a clean pair of heels.

SAF/WAF is also high... mine easily heard the differences within the first few bars and asked me when I was getting one. I should have it in about 3 weeks, or so I am told.

At the end of the day I returned the speaker cables from their strewn out topology to a slightly more appealing bundle. Dammit if the sound didn't degrade slightly, and moreso than I had hoped it would. I am going to have them run under the floor in parallel but evenly spaced runs.

Finally...the CDS2/552 versus the CDS3/52. I have had the pleasure of hearing both of these at my abode. Suffice it to say that each is a clear and very obvious improvement on the CDS2/52. For ME the CDS2/552 had more magic than the CDS3/52- which is probably more a reflection of how special the 552 is rather than a failing of the CDS3. I refer interested readers to a thread called 'An Evening with the 552'from several months ago.
I fully expect the CDS3/552 pairing to be utterly devastating. A combination I am greatly reticent to hear until I can afford the 552. Until then.. sign me up for the CDS3.

Oh, CK also left with me a (and right now THE) Super XPS Burndy cable. I will try this out for the next few weeks on the CDS2, and then with the CDS3, when it arrives and breaks in. I will then be able to offer an long term opinion of its respective merits as compared to the regular Black Burndy that is still in my possession.

Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo


Posted on: 28 April 2003 by Arun Mehan
Another excellent posting by one of our most-revered sages. Not only does Ron compare and contrast the player with both the S1 and S2 (if I may borrow your notation sir), he admits his unintentional mistakes with regards to the DBLs so that others may benefit.

Also how wonderful it is to hear about the attention to detail from Chris Koster. Impressive.

I always look forward to your postings Ron, thank you.
Posted on: 28 April 2003 by NB
Ron,

Excellent report as ever!!

Having heard all of the new series now which piece of kit has impressed you most and which would you say offers the best value for money??

Regards

NB
Posted on: 28 April 2003 by Dev B
great post Ron, mmmm, I feel that I'll have one then!
Posted on: 28 April 2003 by Chris Bell
Koster paid me a visit several weeks ago with the CDS3, and I can echo Ron's report. The S3 is yet another giant leap forward in 16bit audio. My demo consisted of listening to the new Massive Attack (track 1) three times: Bare CDX2, CDX2+XPS2, then finally S3. As expected, each upgrade was significant. The S3, however, made the music almost hipnotic...both Chris and I got totally lost in the tune.

Chris Bell
Posted on: 28 April 2003 by Rico
thanks Ron, great post. Looking forward to hearing one myself.

I look forward to your impressions of the new burndy!

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio
Posted on: 28 April 2003 by David Antonelli
Hi,

I'm in Paris now having a great time, but I was wondering if anyone can direct me to the best naim deqler in the city while I'm here. Sadly, even though I have on of the best naim systems in canada including a 500, becase of regional politics it is hard for me to schedule a home demo. So I would like to make the best of it in paris, hopefully slipping in a demo between other activities here. I'm off to Lithuania on friday for an anual spring piss up on Friday, so any quick pointers would rock.

dave
Posted on: 29 April 2003 by Uwe Supper
David,
I don't know the two following shops personally, but I suppose they are the two main shops in Paris (Parisians, please correct me if I am wrong):
Choukroun Hifi, 113 rue Cambronne, 75015 Paris,O147343558

Audio Synth�se, 8 rue de Prague, 75012 Paris, 0143070701

Try to call them before you visit, just to make sure they have what you want. To be honest, I doubt they have all the big new gear, but I might be wrong.
Good luck,
Uwe
Posted on: 29 April 2003 by JeremyB
Chris, Ron, does the tweater setup also apply to NBLs? It took me some time to bend the mounting plate so it agreed with the picture in the manual. Now I hear there is more to it perhaps.
Posted on: 29 April 2003 by Audio Visionary
Hi David A,
Bryan from the Gramophone in Edmonton here,
I'm currently in Montpellier but I'll be in
Paris from June 4 to June 19th after the next
Frankfurt hi end show. Will you still be in
Paris? You can email me directly at
audio_visionary@hotmail.com

Thanks,
Bryan
Posted on: 29 April 2003 by David Antonelli
Uwe,

thanks. I'll check those places out.

Bryan,

Unfortunately I'm off to vilnius on friday, but will drop in to your shop in edmonton in late june.

dave
Posted on: 29 April 2003 by Steve Crouch
Ron

May I ask what you did with your floor to transform your acoustics?

Steve
Posted on: 29 April 2003 by Ron Toolsie
quote:
May I ask what you did with your floor to transform your acoustics?


The story is detailed somewhere on this forum (or was it the old one). In a nutshell my music room exists over a large and cavernous 3-car garage. Between the plywood floor and the underlying sheetrock roof was an empty air cavity. When playing at any volume the bass energy in the garage was much higher than in the room itself- a very effective bass sump had been created. I had a strip of sheetrock cut out and the airspace filled with blown cellulose. The sheetrock was then patched. This alone resulted in a vast improvement in sweetness, tunefullness and extension. Not to mention a more energy efficient room (it had been unbearably hot in the summer and cold in the winter).

The next very significant upgrade was adding a pair of Mana Soundbases under the DBLs that effected as much as an improvement again- based on what I have experienced I cannot imagine Soundbases under DBLs offering anything less than a large increase in clarity, tunefullness and precision, especially when used on sprung suspended flooring as is often the case here in the US.

The flooring (with sidewall) insulation cost about $1200; two pairs of Mana Soundbases (phase 2 in their lingo) about the same again. The word 'transformation' is probably an understatement.

Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo

[This message was edited by Ron Toolsie on TUESDAY 29 April 2003 at 19:35.]
Posted on: 30 April 2003 by Manu
Stuart,
mine arrived this morning, in what area will it improve during the burn-in period? My XPS2 is well burn-in and has been powered on for weeks. How can this charm improve. Big Grin
I've tried all speakers in the store with the OTB CDS3 (with 252,300), is it possible all speakers sound so good.
Source first, you bet...

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
Posted on: 01 May 2003 by David Antonelli
Stu,

My 500 takes a coons age to warm up after being shut off for more than about ten minutes. I'd say about a week before it peaks again. But my CDS2 isn't so bad in this respect. Has to be off for a few hours and then its back on top in about five days. Momentary powerdowns don't seem to effect it much. The 52 is more like the 500 in this respect. You pay the price for turning it off!

Dave
Posted on: 01 May 2003 by Martin Payne
"Yes, the NBL does require the same freedom of motion, but most are fine as they are if the plate is set flat, as the wires don't seem to hinder the motion in an NBL as much as a DBL."


Chris,

I think I need some help.

My DBL tweeters don't bounce at all.

What do I do???

Help!!!

cheers, Martin

E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com
Posted on: 01 May 2003 by Ron Toolsie
quote:
Ron, interesting report. I will also be auditioning the CDS3 in due course. However, did you try simply adding an XPS2 to the CDS2?



Yes, I have had the XPS2 for about a month or so now, and indeed have an XPS1 lying idle on the carpet. For several days I swapped between the XPS1 and the XPS2 just to make sure what I seemed to be hearing was not wishful thinking. I also have a regular burndy and a super burndy at my disposal.

The XPS1->XPS2 upgrade was a nice step forwards... more relaxed, more open, more in tune and a significant improvement in sheer articulation nad a modest decrease in coloration, especially audible in well recorded vocals. I was quite happy with the XPS2/CDS2. Until I heard the XPS2/CDS3... the S3 is a far larger leap over the S2 than the XPS2 is over the XPS1.

Inspite of the views on other fora, moving up from the S2 has nothing to do with heeding the call of the shepherd- its all about music. Go on Stallion.. you KNOW you want one. Just don't admit to buying it ;-)

Martin... if possible pay a suitable agent to come and sort your tweeters suspension out. Having DBLs with mechanically compromised tweeters is like running the Koetsu Onyx at 0.5 grams tracking... all it takes is just a LITTLE correction and you will have an enormous upgrade. Even Koster admitted to initially blindly struggling with the DBL tweeters for literally hours on end until he figured it out. Again, like an LP12, there are literally thousands of ways to make things worse, but only one way to make them perfect.
Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo
Posted on: 02 May 2003 by Lightkeeper
Ron !

I can only dream about CDS3/XPS2, but your very interesting posts makes my life easier. Smile

Keep on doing and thanks,

Ozren
Posted on: 02 May 2003 by Paul Stephenson
"I ask you the question because I have the feeling much of the improvement brought about by the CDS3 is as a result of the superior performance of the XPS2 PSU, and not so much the new CDS3 head unit."

Not a chance Marco sorry
best!
Posted on: 02 May 2003 by Martin Payne
quote:
Originally posted by Ron Toolsie:
Martin... if possible pay a suitable agent to come and sort your tweeters suspension out. Having DBLs with mechanically compromised tweeters is like running the Koetsu Onyx at 0.5 grams tracking... all it takes is just a LITTLE correction and you will have an enormous upgrade. Even Koster admitted to initially blindly struggling with the DBL tweeters for literally hours on end until he figured it out. Again, like an LP12, there are literally thousands of ways to make things worse, but only one way to make them perfect.



Ron,

that sounds like a great plan, only one problem problem... The only "suitable agent" available, actually put brand-new tweeters in there last year and they don't bounce after that. I guess if he knew how to make them bounce he would have done.

That's why I called on Chris to tell me how to do it myself!

cheers, Martin

E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com
Posted on: 02 May 2003 by Nan
quote:
Originally posted by Stallion:

Btw, did you check out the St Lucia link I sent you a while back? We're off there later in the year.

Marco.


Hi Marco,

I'm from there. Where will you be staying? Its a wonderful place to relax!!! Gros Islet on a friday night is heaven. Wink

It feels so good to see my Island mentioned on the "mighty" Naim forum.



Nan
Posted on: 02 May 2003 by Paul Stephenson
"Regarding the CDS3, I can't agree or disagree with you just now because I haven't tried one yet, but you know I'll tell it as it is when I do."

well as it is for you! trust me I'm never wrong! Wink

Btw, did you check out the St Lucia link I sent you a while back? We're off there later in the year.

I did looks wonderful, we may take you up on it, beautiful place, I just need to sell another 200 cds3s before I am allowed a holiday!
Posted on: 02 May 2003 by John Channing
The XPS1->XPS2 upgrade was a nice step forwards... more relaxed, more open, more in tune and a significant improvement in sheer articulation nad a modest decrease in coloration, especially audible in well recorded vocals. I was quite happy with the XPS2/CDS2. Until I heard the XPS2/CDS3... the S3 is a far larger leap over the S2 than the XPS2 is over the XPS1.

Ron,
I upgraded from XPS to XPS2 after an extensive home demo and found it to be massive upgrade. If the head unit upgrade is even bigger it will be something very special indeed!
John
Posted on: 02 May 2003 by Ron Toolsie
quote:
I upgraded from XPS to XPS2 after an extensive home demo and found it to be massive upgrade. If the head unit upgrade is even bigger it will be something very special indeed!



It is.. it is. Until my own CDS3 arrives and has a chance to fully break-in, this is the last I will be saying about my views on the CDS3-which admittedly had their genesis in only a few hours of listening. However, I did have the benefit of using it in my own system, something I am very familiar with rather than A/B-ing the S2/S3 in an unfamiliar dealers environment.
Look for my follow-up report in about three weeks. I hope to compare the CDS2/XPS2 with the CDS3/XPS1 in addition to the CDS3/XPS2, with the added bonus of the SuperXPS-Burndy vs the regular XPS-Burndy. Who knows, I may even throw in a CD5-Supercap pairing into the battle.

Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo
Posted on: 02 May 2003 by neil w
paul

just out of interest how many people own the cds1 & cds2
later neil