DAC

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
If the PC/Transit/DAC is anywhere close to a bare HDX, I will pee myself.

Patrick, nevermind peeing yourself, there is a real risk of you soiling yourself! The DAC is that good.

A bare HDX I'd describe as competent. Put the DAC on it, and my reaction was along the lines of "F**k Me!!"

I've now had the demo on three occasions, Summer Sounds Roadshow, BBQ / Factory Tour, and the Northampton Show last weekend. Every time adding the DAC has transformed the sound.

HTH

John

quote:

Every time adding the DAC has transformed the sound.

Don't necessarily make it better though? I've heard it 3 times too and it still doesn't sound right to me.

I've only just read Richard's post, and I have to say it sums up the discussion pretty nicely.
The DAC looks like it's a great solution, not only for improving Naim front ends, but also as a standalone for the computer bods - you only have to look at the white paper to get some nice hints as to what hardware will work well.
I think the Naim demo boys were using a Mac with the DAC last weekend, and although that doesn't interest me so much, you can't accuse them of not showing off the DAC in that configuration. It can only widen the appeal for the DAC, and they can't afford to overlook that market.
I decided to go with the HDX for a variety of reasons, not least the ability to have a reliable rip algorithm without tweaking software settings, and farting about with interfaces, interconnects and so on - I get enough of that at work thankyou.
I can understand that many will want that approach - that's fine - but the HDX keeps it simple for me, and it works.
OK, it's limited by its SuperNait DAC, but that's shortly going to be fixed, and I've heard the result no less than three times, and never failed to be impressed - I can't wait.

quote:

Originally posted by BigH47:

quote:

Every time adding the DAC has transformed the sound.

Don't necessarily make it better though? I've heard it 3 times too and it still doesn't sound right to me.

I must admit to not coming at it from a CDS2/XPS starting point. There again I wouldn't go back to a CD player, with its own issues and compromises, I prefer the DA route.

That said, I seem to be concentrating my efforts at my vinyl playback at the mo. Luddite? Moi?

John

quote:

Originally posted by AllenB:

quote:

Originally posted by AllenB:

quote:

Originally posted by DHT:
Allen B, thoughtful post, may I ask did you hear the new dac before you placed your order, and if it is no better than the Lavry?

No, taking a flyer on it. I do not have a local dealer, so it's not easy for me at the moment to do dems on Naim equipment, but I have been using Naim for 20-25 years now, so I must trust them

I'll surely let you all know what I hear when I receive it though. It will be one of the first direct computer source reports maybe !!!

I guess a few and you (DHT) might be wondering what will happen if the Naim DAC is no better than the Lavry.

Well there are quite a few factors that come into play here:-
1) Surely Naim will have looked at the Lavry very closely, and made sure they can better it's performance;
2) The new DAC is about 3 times the cost of the Lavry, I'm not expecting 3x the performance, but better will make me very happy;
3) I believe in Naim power supplies and what they can do to the output stages on a component, the DAC benefits from this option;
4) Since selling my CDS3 / XPS2 I have had a Hi-Line sitting in the drawer waiting for a new Naim source component;
5) Whilst I would have preferred a reference series case, the 5 series case will bring back the visual synergy on my Fraim racking;
6) Audible synergy is hopefully a given.

I'm not expecting a disaster (where the Lavry still is better) and I am keeping my expectations fairly constrained, so long as it's an improvement 'bare', i.e. without added PSU and powerline, I'll be happy. Room for maneouvre and all that!

Allen Hi, wouldn't your dealer let you try one first? They could take a deposit or your credit card details, the chap I used just sent me a dac to try.

quote:

Originally posted by DHT:
It is just a dac, I will connect it, it will either be better or worse than the Weiss, perhaps I can use the Weiss as a firwire interface to make it 'fairer'!

Possibly interesting new product (coming soon) from Weiss. The INT202 FireWire to AES & SPDIF converter (output only). Depending on the cost might be a good way to connect the Naim DAC (and others) to your FireWire equipped Mac or PC assuming the interface is similar quality to the AFI1 and Vesta.

Eloise

I think we might have been reading the same forum! That does look an interesting product,and my (albeit limited ) experience with Weiss is that the products are extremely well designed, it could be perfect with the new Naim dac.

quote:

Originally posted by DHT:
I think we might have been reading the same forum! That does look an interesting product,and my (albeit limited ) experience with Weiss is that the products are extremely well designed, it could be perfect with the new Naim dac.

Looks that way ... just waiting on price for it. It seams perfect solution if it's up to the quality of Weiss' other kit.

Allen Hi I am pretty sure it can, there is a link on Computer Audiophile.

Probably very much like the K8 with DICE II and less versitility which is not a bad thing for this purpose. No A2D, DAC headphone jack or mic input etc which most have no need for. With the K8 you can avoid the internal mixer but not in every configuration. Here, there is a dig volume control and it may also have some mixing facilities that can probably be bypassed. I suspect ASIO will also be in the mix for those with PCs and it's reasonable.

For those that that like the HDX but think it a bit rich, don't forget that with the DAC an NS01 should sound and function the same from DIG out and is significantly less, just no front touch screen.

quote:

For those that that like the HDX but think it a bit rich, don't forget that with the DAC an NS01 should sound and function the same from DIG out and is significantly less, just no front touch screen.

I always forget about the NS range...is the ripping the same as the HDX? And I assume there is no benefit of a PSU when usuing a DAC?

Yes, well done js for pointing out the NS01 as a cheaper alternative to an HDX. You lose the touch screen of course but the ripping engine is the same and it should give a similar quality of digital output.

all the the same internals in the NS range

ns03 front TS 4 analogue out.
ns02 4 analogue out
ns01 1 analogue out
hdx 1 front TS 1 audiophile analogue out plus different riser card.

so thinking of solutions there are many.

all software associated works the same plus when the APP is available it will work the same on all.

why can naim not just enlarge the internal discs of the ns 1 and the hdx...i want to strore all my music on one black box without any attachments or separate cables..like for the internet connection ( really not necessary here . the unity has a better solution )

if by adding the dac to that solution the difference between the performance of the hdx and the dac would disappear,it would be a perfect combo.

i buy it straight away

actually the difference in price between the ns1 and the hdx ist the dac´s cost. so if you anyway intend to go the streamer / dac route you get a much better player for the same amount

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Dane:
The HDX has shown that when fed by a serious PSU such as an XPS or 555PS, it can put in a performance up there with the very best at any price. In my view it's only the internal DAC that has ever so slightly held the HDX back. It's an excellent DAC but perhaps not quite as good as the ones used in the top Naim CD players. The new Naim DAC though, changes all that - and how!

Richard

Since you have been contributing to this thread do you care to expound on the above statement? Do you think that the new DAC is better than that found, in say, the CDS3? From what you have heard how does a NS1 or HDX/DAC?555PS compare to a CDS3/555PS?

Thanks
Gregg

Gregg,

I wish I could tell you, but as I've said in a previous post, I haven't had my hands on a DAC yet to play with - but can't wait to do so! I'm really looking forward to trying it out with everything from a DVD5 through a Meridian CD transport to my Vaio laptop via an appropriate USB or Firewire convertor.

As for whether the DAC used in the DAC is better than that in the CDS3, I think you'll find they use the same Burr Brown PCM1704Ks (pretty much unbeatable in Naim's view, especially when so rigorously selected at HQ), however, the oversampling and filtering in the new DAC are quite different, and should, in theory be far superior.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Dane:
As for whether the DAC used in the DAC is better than that in the CDS3, I think you'll find they use the same Burr Brown PCM1704Ks (pretty much unbeatable in Naim's view, especially when so rigorously selected at HQ), however, the oversampling and filtering in the new DAC are quite different, and should, in theory be far superior.

WOW-if that is the case than LOOK OUT
My CDS3 might go up for sale and my 555PS will be getting a new roommate!

Thank you

Gregg

also its dual mono 1704's the same as the s3 and 555

quote:

Originally posted by Patrick F:
also its dual mono 1704's the same as the s3 and 555

Sure but they don't sound alike.
My Krell kps25s also employs 1704s in dual mono and it sounds nothing like a Naim player.

um yeah because it's a krell

i also forgot to mentione S3 doesn't sound very much like CD555 either. :P

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:
i also forgot to mentione S3 doesn't sound very much like CD555 either. :P

But sometimes dependability also enters into the equation

There is a tentative price for the new Weiss firewire interface/ preamp $1300, that doesn't seem too steep for what it can do, presumably you would just need your source,dac and this ,you could even do away with your preamp?

Seems a bit high to me but there may be more to it than meets the eye. Appears to be the VESTA on their site. Perhaps not for it's intended use which I suspect may be more than this. The money is probably in attempting a proper transparent DIG vol control which takes a fair bit of processing. Naim amps almost always prefer to be fronted by Naim pre's. There doesn't seem to be mention of a VOL control and it may just be controlable from the mixer panel via computer as on a TC.

JS it is not the vesta, infra red remote volume control