You have been lied to, maniplated and decieved
Posted by: acad tsunami on 04 January 2007
So what are YOU going to do about it?
'The future is not a gift: it is an achievement. Every generation helps make its own future. This is the essential challenge of the present.'
Robert F. Kennedy
Following on from some comments Rasher made on my 'Stray Dogs' thread I would like to ask - Are you going to be an idle spectator or are you going to try and make a difference? What can be done to make a difference in the world? Is voting enough?
I hope you all watch this excellent documentary which covers a good many aspects of the present situation the world finds itself in as a result of the neocon far right in America.
'The future is not a gift: it is an achievement. Every generation helps make its own future. This is the essential challenge of the present.'
Robert F. Kennedy
Following on from some comments Rasher made on my 'Stray Dogs' thread I would like to ask - Are you going to be an idle spectator or are you going to try and make a difference? What can be done to make a difference in the world? Is voting enough?
I hope you all watch this excellent documentary which covers a good many aspects of the present situation the world finds itself in as a result of the neocon far right in America.
Posted on: 11 January 2007 by Rasher
As a Structural Engineer, it has been much discussed in the past few years in my profession and I'm sick to death of it now, especially as my PI insurance has quadrupled because of it, as Structral Engineers have been made to shoulder responsibility. I now pay £300 a month just to practice, before I earn anything.
We know what happened, but proof is unattainable in law when the towers have gone and cannot be investigated. You can talk about proof in a simplistic way, but you'd have trouble proving the last telephone conversation you had in a court of law.
Million dollar rewards? It would cost billions just to get close, if proof is required. An understanding of what probably happened is another matter, but that just isn't good enough, is it!
We know what happened, but proof is unattainable in law when the towers have gone and cannot be investigated. You can talk about proof in a simplistic way, but you'd have trouble proving the last telephone conversation you had in a court of law.
Million dollar rewards? It would cost billions just to get close, if proof is required. An understanding of what probably happened is another matter, but that just isn't good enough, is it!
Posted on: 11 January 2007 by acad tsunami
quote:Originally posted by Rasher:
As a Structural Engineer, it has been much discussed in the past few years in my profession and I'm sick to death of it now, especially as my PI insurance has quadrupled because of it, as Structral Engineers have been made to shoulder responsibility. I now pay £300 a month just to practice, before I earn anything.
We know what happened, but proof is unattainable in law when the towers have gone and cannot be investigated. You can talk about proof in a simplistic way, but you'd have trouble proving the last telephone conversation you had in a court of law.
Million dollar rewards? It would cost billions just to get close, if proof is required. An understanding of what probably happened is another matter, but that just isn't good enough, is it!
Good points Rasher. Proof is different from evidence I suppose. The difference between proof and evidence is whether the evidence is believed maybe? Of course the rubble etc. from the towers was shipped out of the country and the whole area was not treated as a crime scene at all. There is also the question of the traces of military grade explosives etc. There is also the question of why the third building collapsed and a whole bunch of other stuff that has been exposed and then there is also the enormous problem of the 'jet' that allegedly flew into the Pentagon.
An understanding of what probably happened in the case of the twin towers is only a part of the whole conspiracy.
What is the general feeling amongst your peers Rasher? Definitely something dodgy? Definitely nothing dodgy? Or possibly either but they cant be sure from a structural engineering point of view for want of evidence?
Have you seen any of the documentaries? You are a sensible chap and I'm interested in your professional view here.
Posted on: 11 January 2007 by Rasher
Firstly, "proof" is evidence that will stand up to any challenge or any other possibility. It is almost an impossibility. Someone might say "prove it wasn't the finger of God". Where do you start? Start maybe by trying to prove God exists or not? It isn't possible. It's a pretty safe bet by whoever made it.
Engineers are technicians looking at mechanical forces on a designed structure, not political misinformation. You have to start with a brief and the brief must be from given facts. First thing to do is redesign the building and see what errors were made during this process. Details on plans are one thing, but costs may be saved by contractors cutting corners when supervision is looking elsewhere. Defects in concrete and steel. Metal fatigue due to wind forces and sway - it's endless really. We get to build these things and we make it up as we go along. No-one has built these twin towers before. It was on the Petronas Twin Towers where the bridge was found to not fit. No-one had twigged that the curvature of the earth would make the towers further away at the top than they are at the bottom. You can't think of everything, we're only human. To be honest I don't know how the twin towers collapsed, but current theory is that impact of the plane shattered fire cladding off the steelwork leaving it exposed to extreme heat, which caused it to buckle, and when it starts to go you ain't going to stop it. Hold up a tall ladder vertically, fine. Easy. Now lean it slightly. Once gravity gets it sideways, run.
Who really knows what happened, but we just make a best stab at it.
Engineers are technicians looking at mechanical forces on a designed structure, not political misinformation. You have to start with a brief and the brief must be from given facts. First thing to do is redesign the building and see what errors were made during this process. Details on plans are one thing, but costs may be saved by contractors cutting corners when supervision is looking elsewhere. Defects in concrete and steel. Metal fatigue due to wind forces and sway - it's endless really. We get to build these things and we make it up as we go along. No-one has built these twin towers before. It was on the Petronas Twin Towers where the bridge was found to not fit. No-one had twigged that the curvature of the earth would make the towers further away at the top than they are at the bottom. You can't think of everything, we're only human. To be honest I don't know how the twin towers collapsed, but current theory is that impact of the plane shattered fire cladding off the steelwork leaving it exposed to extreme heat, which caused it to buckle, and when it starts to go you ain't going to stop it. Hold up a tall ladder vertically, fine. Easy. Now lean it slightly. Once gravity gets it sideways, run.
Who really knows what happened, but we just make a best stab at it.
Posted on: 11 January 2007 by acad tsunami
Interesting. Thanks Rasher.
Posted on: 11 January 2007 by acad tsunami
No proof' of Iran nuclear arms
Hersh: CIA Analysis Finds Iran Not Developing Nuclear Weapons
The Iran Plans
Iran and weapons of mass destruction
From: GlobalSecurity.org the following:
The vast majority of Iran's crude oil reserves are located in giant onshore fields in the southwestern Khuzestan region near the Iraqi border and the Persian Gulf. Iran has 32 producing oil fields, of which 25 are onshore and 7 offshore. Major onshore fields include the following: Ahwaz-Asmari (700,000 bbl/d); Bangestan (around 245,000 bbl/d current production, with plans to increase to 550,000 bbl/d), Marun (520,000 bbl/d), Gachsaran (560,000 bbl/d), Agha Jari (200,000 bbl/d), Karanj-Parsi (200,000 bbl/d); Rag-e-Safid (180,000 bbl/d); Bibi Hakimeh (130,000 bbl/d), and Pazanan (70,000 bbl/d). Major offshore fields include: Dorood (130,000 bbl/d); Salman (130,000 bbl/d); Abuzar (125,000 bbl/d); Sirri A&E (95,000 bbl/d); and Soroush/Nowruz (60,000 bbl/d).
According to the Oil and Gas Journal (1/1/04), Iran holds 125.8 billion barrels of proven oil reserves, roughly 10% of the world's total, up from 90 billion barrels in 2003. In October 1999, Iran announced that it had made its biggest oil discovery in 30 years, a giant onshore field called Azadegan located in the southwestern province of Khuzestan, a few miles east of the border with Iraq. Reportedly, the Azadegan field contains proven crude oil reserves of 26 billion barrels. In July 2004, Iran's oil minister stated that the country's proven oil reserves had increased again, to 132 billion barrels, following new discoveries in the Kushk and Hosseineih fields in Khuzestan province.
Hersh: CIA Analysis Finds Iran Not Developing Nuclear Weapons
The Iran Plans
Iran and weapons of mass destruction
From: GlobalSecurity.org the following:
The vast majority of Iran's crude oil reserves are located in giant onshore fields in the southwestern Khuzestan region near the Iraqi border and the Persian Gulf. Iran has 32 producing oil fields, of which 25 are onshore and 7 offshore. Major onshore fields include the following: Ahwaz-Asmari (700,000 bbl/d); Bangestan (around 245,000 bbl/d current production, with plans to increase to 550,000 bbl/d), Marun (520,000 bbl/d), Gachsaran (560,000 bbl/d), Agha Jari (200,000 bbl/d), Karanj-Parsi (200,000 bbl/d); Rag-e-Safid (180,000 bbl/d); Bibi Hakimeh (130,000 bbl/d), and Pazanan (70,000 bbl/d). Major offshore fields include: Dorood (130,000 bbl/d); Salman (130,000 bbl/d); Abuzar (125,000 bbl/d); Sirri A&E (95,000 bbl/d); and Soroush/Nowruz (60,000 bbl/d).
According to the Oil and Gas Journal (1/1/04), Iran holds 125.8 billion barrels of proven oil reserves, roughly 10% of the world's total, up from 90 billion barrels in 2003. In October 1999, Iran announced that it had made its biggest oil discovery in 30 years, a giant onshore field called Azadegan located in the southwestern province of Khuzestan, a few miles east of the border with Iraq. Reportedly, the Azadegan field contains proven crude oil reserves of 26 billion barrels. In July 2004, Iran's oil minister stated that the country's proven oil reserves had increased again, to 132 billion barrels, following new discoveries in the Kushk and Hosseineih fields in Khuzestan province.
Posted on: 11 January 2007 by acad tsunami
I don't trust Iran either. I trust Israel even less. One of these countries has Nuclear weapons already and the other has not got any. One is backed by the world's most powerful country which is governed by a warmongering moron with a history of illegal invasions and the other knows that if it did have nuclear weapons and used them they would be retaliated against and wiped out.
Posted on: 11 January 2007 by acad tsunami
quote:Originally posted by Tarquin Maynard-Portly:
Acad
Do us the courtesey of putting it into words.
I have not read your links: I assume they are blogs and so worth little.
Regards
Mike
They are not blogs. BBC News, Wikepdia, globalsecurity.org just a few links to dip into which offer different views etc. Yes, I have heard of Dimona.
Posted on: 13 January 2007 by acad tsunami
Terror Storm: A History of False Flag Terrorism
Excellent eye opening documentary. False flag operations are covert operations conducted by governments, corporations, or other organizations, which are designed to appear as if they are being carried out by other entities. The name is derived from the military concept of flying false colors; that is, flying the flag of a country other than one's own.
Throughout history, criminal elements inside governments have carried out terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them. TerrorStorm reveals how, in the last hundred years, Western leaders have repeatedly murdered their own citizens while posing as their saviors.
In TerrorStorm you will discover that September 11th, the attacks of 7/7 in London, and many other terrorist events were self-inflicted wounds. You will witness British Special Forces troops caught in the act of staging terror attacks in Iraq and see official US government documents laying out plans to hijack passenger planes by remote control. You will learn how the Reichstag fire, the Gulf of Tonkin, and the US-backed Iranian coup of 1953 are all interconnected false-flag terror events.
This powerful documentary explores the mindset of the average brainwashed Westerner. It delves deeply in to the systems of control which have been scientifically-crafted to imprison their minds and keep their eyes closed to the realities of the world around them.
Excellent eye opening documentary. False flag operations are covert operations conducted by governments, corporations, or other organizations, which are designed to appear as if they are being carried out by other entities. The name is derived from the military concept of flying false colors; that is, flying the flag of a country other than one's own.
Throughout history, criminal elements inside governments have carried out terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them. TerrorStorm reveals how, in the last hundred years, Western leaders have repeatedly murdered their own citizens while posing as their saviors.
In TerrorStorm you will discover that September 11th, the attacks of 7/7 in London, and many other terrorist events were self-inflicted wounds. You will witness British Special Forces troops caught in the act of staging terror attacks in Iraq and see official US government documents laying out plans to hijack passenger planes by remote control. You will learn how the Reichstag fire, the Gulf of Tonkin, and the US-backed Iranian coup of 1953 are all interconnected false-flag terror events.
This powerful documentary explores the mindset of the average brainwashed Westerner. It delves deeply in to the systems of control which have been scientifically-crafted to imprison their minds and keep their eyes closed to the realities of the world around them.
Posted on: 14 January 2007 by acad tsunami
You watched the video then? 
Posted on: 14 January 2007 by acad tsunami
Tarquin,
I don't think anyone is saying that UK/SF were caught on camera - what has been said is they were caught....caught driving a car bomb full of explosives and weaponry...they were caught, arrested and imprisoned and then rescued before any interrogation could take place in a rather desperate military operation and this was widely reported, even in the UK media here
Another (more accurate?) version
Acad
I don't think anyone is saying that UK/SF were caught on camera - what has been said is they were caught....caught driving a car bomb full of explosives and weaponry...they were caught, arrested and imprisoned and then rescued before any interrogation could take place in a rather desperate military operation and this was widely reported, even in the UK media here
Another (more accurate?) version
Acad
Posted on: 14 January 2007 by acad tsunami
quote:Originally posted by Tarquin Maynard-Portly:
CRASH BANG WALLOP OOPS SORRY ABOUT THE CORNER KABOOOOOM
You should write for Marvel Comics. Of course the rescue was desperate. If the two soldiers had been normal squaddies arrested for raping a local girl and banged up in an Iraqi cell then the army would follow the usual procedures for having them released to the SIB of RMP after liasing with local Iraqi government. There are rules for this kind of thing and those rules do not involve a full scale military op which flattened the whole jail. Why did they do it? It was because the two soldiers were SAS who were caught driving a car bomb in disguise and the army didnt want them interrogated.
Posted on: 16 January 2007 by acad tsunami
Tarquin,
What possible military purpose could there possibly be for two SAS troopers to drive a vehicle wired up us a car bomb while disguised as Arab locals? Please advise quoting examples from your extensive military experience.
Are you aware that the British Army has an extensive history of false flag ops in a number of different theatres? The last thing the US/UK wanted is for the Iraqi people to rise up as one against the illegal occupation and thus has done everything in its power to cause division - if substantial sections of the Iraqi population is busy fighting each other then it suits the US/UK perfectly for a number of different reasons.
The SAS were going to park their car near a school or hospital and then they were going to blow it up or they were going to deliver it to a third party to do it for them. If you think that sounds outrageous you would do well to study the history of the Raj or how Mossadeq in Iran was disposed of and many other examples of British false flag ops in Northern Ireland, Malaysia, Aden, Cyprus etc. then you might ask if the UK did it then why would they not do it now? It's divide and rule and it always has been divide rule right back to medieval times and beyond.
In the first instance please answer the first question.
What possible military purpose could there possibly be for two SAS troopers to drive a vehicle wired up us a car bomb while disguised as Arab locals? Please advise quoting examples from your extensive military experience.
Are you aware that the British Army has an extensive history of false flag ops in a number of different theatres? The last thing the US/UK wanted is for the Iraqi people to rise up as one against the illegal occupation and thus has done everything in its power to cause division - if substantial sections of the Iraqi population is busy fighting each other then it suits the US/UK perfectly for a number of different reasons.
The SAS were going to park their car near a school or hospital and then they were going to blow it up or they were going to deliver it to a third party to do it for them. If you think that sounds outrageous you would do well to study the history of the Raj or how Mossadeq in Iran was disposed of and many other examples of British false flag ops in Northern Ireland, Malaysia, Aden, Cyprus etc. then you might ask if the UK did it then why would they not do it now? It's divide and rule and it always has been divide rule right back to medieval times and beyond.
In the first instance please answer the first question.
Posted on: 17 January 2007 by Haim Ronen
quote:Originally posted by Tarquin Maynard-Portly:
I'll continue to deal with other arguments/comments should you wish.
Regards
Mike
Mike,
Reminds me of some of the Ping Pong I was doing here not long ago..
Hope your troops come home soon.
Regards,
Haim
Posted on: 18 January 2007 by Jo Sharp
Tarquin,
I think you are wasting your time...this guy has got a very strange imagination, agenda, or several loose screws up top...or all three. I doubt that you will get properly referenced, reliable source details from him. Bit of a Walt.....
I think you are wasting your time...this guy has got a very strange imagination, agenda, or several loose screws up top...or all three. I doubt that you will get properly referenced, reliable source details from him. Bit of a Walt.....
Posted on: 18 January 2007 by Haim Ronen
quote:Originally posted by Tarquin Maynard-Portly:
Shalom, Haim, I hope you and yours are well.
Regards
Mike
Thanks Mike.
Hope the same for you and yours.
Regards,
Haim