Isobarik Positioning
Posted by: Mick P on 02 June 2002
Chaps
I had a guy around this morning who is fairly knowledgeable about Naim and Hifi.
He had a listen to my system and he suggested that I would get a much better sound if I toed the Isobariks in, rather than have them pointing straight out in paralell.
I have the things mounted on Mana units and also there are some shelves which also touch the speakers, so moving them around will require a bit of effort.
The speakers are 7ft apart measured on an inside wall to inside wall basis and I sit in the middle about 11ft from both of them.
So the question is.
a) Can you toe briks in and will it improve the soundstage.
b) Can you rotate the Briks on a Mana stand by rotating the stand on one spike and the setting it down again. I cannot ask this question on the Mana forum because JW banned me.
Many thanks
Mick
I had a guy around this morning who is fairly knowledgeable about Naim and Hifi.
He had a listen to my system and he suggested that I would get a much better sound if I toed the Isobariks in, rather than have them pointing straight out in paralell.
I have the things mounted on Mana units and also there are some shelves which also touch the speakers, so moving them around will require a bit of effort.
The speakers are 7ft apart measured on an inside wall to inside wall basis and I sit in the middle about 11ft from both of them.
So the question is.
a) Can you toe briks in and will it improve the soundstage.
b) Can you rotate the Briks on a Mana stand by rotating the stand on one spike and the setting it down again. I cannot ask this question on the Mana forum because JW banned me.
Many thanks
Mick
Posted on: 02 June 2002 by Willy
Mick,
I had always understood that the top drive units in the Briks were there to cure off axis response, and therefore negate the need to toe-in. But of course I could be wrong. Personally I've got them 1.5 inches from back wall, 7 feet between, and sit about 13 feet back. Have made some recent changes up front, Ekos, Fraim, Supercap and most recently 72 boards in 32 which have improved and extended bass (and pretty much everything else). Need to wait 'till all's run in but may have to move them forward a bit to re-balance the system.
Regards,
Willy.
I had always understood that the top drive units in the Briks were there to cure off axis response, and therefore negate the need to toe-in. But of course I could be wrong. Personally I've got them 1.5 inches from back wall, 7 feet between, and sit about 13 feet back. Have made some recent changes up front, Ekos, Fraim, Supercap and most recently 72 boards in 32 which have improved and extended bass (and pretty much everything else). Need to wait 'till all's run in but may have to move them forward a bit to re-balance the system.
Regards,
Willy.
Posted on: 02 June 2002 by Jez Quigley
Straight backs, 3 to 9 inches from the wall, as far away from the corners as you can sensibly get them, and nothing in between.
Posted on: 03 June 2002 by Mick P
Chaps
I had a go this morning of removing some shelving and experimented with repositioning the Isobariks.
After a couple of hours I have concluded that they sound their best 5" away from the wall, firing straight out with no toe in at all.
Therefore I am now happy.
In response to the comments from JMCP, our beloved Hospital Porter from the Glasgow clap clinic, yes, I will one day buy a more powerful amp than the two 135's, which as you know is the NAP 500.
I also strongly recommend that you give up your dream of buying some Stealth amplifiers, because if they have the same amount of oompth that JW and the Mana forum has of recent, they wont even blow a penny whistle.
Regards
Mick
I had a go this morning of removing some shelving and experimented with repositioning the Isobariks.
After a couple of hours I have concluded that they sound their best 5" away from the wall, firing straight out with no toe in at all.
Therefore I am now happy.
In response to the comments from JMCP, our beloved Hospital Porter from the Glasgow clap clinic, yes, I will one day buy a more powerful amp than the two 135's, which as you know is the NAP 500.
I also strongly recommend that you give up your dream of buying some Stealth amplifiers, because if they have the same amount of oompth that JW and the Mana forum has of recent, they wont even blow a penny whistle.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 03 June 2002 by Andrew Randle
quote:
The Isobarik loudspeaker is happiest about 8 to 9 inches away from the back wall. Any closer and there's a really annoying 'nasal' midband resonance problem.
In who's room? What were the room dimensions, materials, resonant modes?
Andrew
Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"
Posted on: 03 June 2002 by plynnplynn
Extract from Linn Isobarik Owners Manual
"To ensure consistency of performance, we have designed all our loudspeakers to work best when positioned within 5 -10 cms from the wall, and at least 45 cms from any corner, where possible."
Terry
"To ensure consistency of performance, we have designed all our loudspeakers to work best when positioned within 5 -10 cms from the wall, and at least 45 cms from any corner, where possible."
Terry
Posted on: 04 June 2002 by Mick P
James old boy
I must have shifted the Briks on the stands as a complete unit about a dozen times. They still sound great so there is no way I am taking them out of the stand. You have to drop them in and out (verticall)of the stand which is a two man job.
If it aint broke......etc
Nice to know that you care
Regards
Mick
I must have shifted the Briks on the stands as a complete unit about a dozen times. They still sound great so there is no way I am taking them out of the stand. You have to drop them in and out (verticall)of the stand which is a two man job.
If it aint broke......etc
Nice to know that you care
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 04 June 2002 by Martin Payne
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
James old boy
I must have shifted the Briks on the stands as a complete unit about a dozen times.
Mick,
I guess it mainly depends on whether there is glass on top of spikes with a Brik stand.
If so, then moving them once would definately necessitate dismantling them and re-doing the setup.
Sorry, but that's the way with Mana. There's just no compliance with glass.
Martin
Posted on: 05 June 2002 by Dev B
Mick
I think you can safely toe in Isobariks with good effect. The central "image" gets a bit stronger.
Give it a go.
regards
Dev
I think you can safely toe in Isobariks with good effect. The central "image" gets a bit stronger.
Give it a go.
regards
Dev
Posted on: 06 June 2002 by Jez Quigley
James - ROFL!
Posted on: 06 June 2002 by Mick P
Dev
I toed the things in by varying amounts but I finally ended up by pulling them an extra couple of inches away from the wall and firing in paralell. They sound much better as a result.
I may have a retuning exercise over the weekend. I wish Naim would make some Fraim speaker stands.
One quick question, I have just bought and set up a pair of cherry veneered SBL's (9 months old)...how long does it take for the gasket sealant to harden. I am iching to hear what they sound like but am leaving it until tomorrow just in case I blow the gasket.
Regards
Mick
I toed the things in by varying amounts but I finally ended up by pulling them an extra couple of inches away from the wall and firing in paralell. They sound much better as a result.
I may have a retuning exercise over the weekend. I wish Naim would make some Fraim speaker stands.
One quick question, I have just bought and set up a pair of cherry veneered SBL's (9 months old)...how long does it take for the gasket sealant to harden. I am iching to hear what they sound like but am leaving it until tomorrow just in case I blow the gasket.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 07 June 2002 by Dev B
Hi Mick,
The gasket hardens very quickly (minutes at room temperature). But to be safe you shoudl not crank it up for a day or so. But your new speakers (or re-setup) speakers will need some time to run in.
SBL's do take a while (I'd say) two weeks or so to run in and settle after resealing. I did mine a month ago and I could small and significant hear improvements in the bass for about three weeks. I knwo that sounds nerdy but it's true
But to answer your question you can turn the volume up this evening.
Hope this helps and good luck.
regards
Dev
The gasket hardens very quickly (minutes at room temperature). But to be safe you shoudl not crank it up for a day or so. But your new speakers (or re-setup) speakers will need some time to run in.
SBL's do take a while (I'd say) two weeks or so to run in and settle after resealing. I did mine a month ago and I could small and significant hear improvements in the bass for about three weeks. I knwo that sounds nerdy but it's true
But to answer your question you can turn the volume up this evening.
Hope this helps and good luck.
regards
Dev
Posted on: 07 June 2002 by ejl
quote:
Mick, I would be facinated to hear a view from someone with no axe to grind regarding a comparison of SBL/Briks
Me too. (I've also made the comparison, but I'm probably biased and will keep my mouth shut).
Posted on: 07 June 2002 by Mick P
Mark / ejl
The honest answer is I think I now prefer the SBL's.
Up till a few months ago my main system (52/250) powered SBL's and my second system 32.5+hicap/250
powered Linn Saras.
Several of my friends commented that the SBL's, whilst being superb in the top end, seemed to lack bass.
A pair of what appeared to be exceptional Briks came up for sale and I bought them and also got a good second hand Mana stand at the same time.
The Brik/Mana combination trounced the SBL's and I decided to keep the Briks and try the SBL's in the second system. The SBL's absolutely murdered the Saras, but Mrs Mick would not allow black speakers in the dining room.
Therefore I sold the black SBL's and yesterday purchased a pair of 2001 wooden veneered ones.
The SBL's really bring the second system to life in a way I have not heard before, not only are they better than the Saras, they are also better than the old SBL's which were of 1988 vintage with new drive units.
There is no doubt that the recent SBL's are several notches up on the older ones. I have been told that this is because of a newer cabinet from a recently appointed supplier.
These SBL's are so good, I am now seriously comptemplating replacing the Briks.
Briks are good speakers, but are not as fast as the SBL's. Paul Messenger has often commented that size is important in speakers and the Briks certainly have some large drive units which give a good deep dull bass.
It's a close damm thing.
I think the SBL's have a higher WAF than the Briks but that is subjective.
I think the lesson is, buy as late a pair of SBL's as you can.
Regards
Mick
The honest answer is I think I now prefer the SBL's.
Up till a few months ago my main system (52/250) powered SBL's and my second system 32.5+hicap/250
powered Linn Saras.
Several of my friends commented that the SBL's, whilst being superb in the top end, seemed to lack bass.
A pair of what appeared to be exceptional Briks came up for sale and I bought them and also got a good second hand Mana stand at the same time.
The Brik/Mana combination trounced the SBL's and I decided to keep the Briks and try the SBL's in the second system. The SBL's absolutely murdered the Saras, but Mrs Mick would not allow black speakers in the dining room.
Therefore I sold the black SBL's and yesterday purchased a pair of 2001 wooden veneered ones.
The SBL's really bring the second system to life in a way I have not heard before, not only are they better than the Saras, they are also better than the old SBL's which were of 1988 vintage with new drive units.
There is no doubt that the recent SBL's are several notches up on the older ones. I have been told that this is because of a newer cabinet from a recently appointed supplier.
These SBL's are so good, I am now seriously comptemplating replacing the Briks.
Briks are good speakers, but are not as fast as the SBL's. Paul Messenger has often commented that size is important in speakers and the Briks certainly have some large drive units which give a good deep dull bass.
It's a close damm thing.
I think the SBL's have a higher WAF than the Briks but that is subjective.
I think the lesson is, buy as late a pair of SBL's as you can.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 08 June 2002 by Mick P
Mark / ejl
Although the SBL's are 9 months old, they have never been played, so are running in.
They have now have about 24 hrs use and they are really getting into gear. Much more bassy than I expected and they are 8" out from the wall because they are either side of a wall unit.
Mrs Mick and I prefer the SBl's, my son prefers the sound and appearance of the Briks. So 2:1 in favour of the SBL's.
Regards
Mick
Although the SBL's are 9 months old, they have never been played, so are running in.
They have now have about 24 hrs use and they are really getting into gear. Much more bassy than I expected and they are 8" out from the wall because they are either side of a wall unit.
Mrs Mick and I prefer the SBl's, my son prefers the sound and appearance of the Briks. So 2:1 in favour of the SBL's.
Regards
Mick