I have some difficulties in deciding which upgrade path to choose, and so I humbly beg for help from some of You enlightened Naimish People.
I'll try to state my case as clear as my english skills will allow, please bear with me.
Current setup:
Cd 3,5 + LP12/Lingo/Akito2/k-18mk2 + 92/92 + AVI positrons
After having setted up my Sondek, theese days I'm thinking about getting rid of my cd 3,5, and go for a cheaper Rega or somthing quite alike. GOSH! you might say, but honestly the sound of cd doesn't seem to be able to "touch" me. The music of the Sondek makes me "attentive" (is this the right word for it?... or perhaps "present"), I wish I felt the same way about my compact discs.
I can see why the 3,5(and quite a few other players) is called a musical cd-player, and indeed I find it impressive, but at the end of the day (often litteraly) I find myself only really involving myself in the music, when playing it with the Sondek. Actually, weird as it may sound, I find that the impressing qualities of the cd-player annoys me, as it makes me think I OUGHT, somehow, to enjoy such a "luxurious" sound. The thing is I can't 'cause it lacks some sort of "rawness".
Anyway, I don't intend to reopen the cd-vs-vinyl discussion, but as I might sell my 3,5, I'll be able to spend some money on the vinyl route. And even if you talk me into keeping it, I think I'll upgrade anyway. I'm not desperately selling my cd in order to upgrade the analogue path, but simply because I feel I don't need it in my life.
Allright, down to the overall troubble with my system: It sounds great with rather uncomplicated music but as the volume goes up or as the music gets more complex/ gets more "weight", the sound somehow collapses.
Now I'm not aiming at a top of the line system, which i know would solve all sonic problems, but rather at a BALANCED system, making me able to play more complex music with the same joy as I have now with lesser complicated music.
Now here is what I'm considdering as possible upgrades:
1. flatcap with the 92
or
2. hicap with the 92
or
3. hicap with prefix and Klyde cartridge
First sollution is pretty simple, but will it do? Second solution would imply some knowledge about old vs. new hicaps/snaics. Are older hicaps better than new flatcaps? What's the recapping price for a hi/flat-cap? Would a resent hicap be worth the price of two old ones?
The items in the third sollution are available at the moment second hand but in good condition. It's quite rare stuff in Denmark and although it seemed an unnatural upgrade at first, I thought I'd ask some of You.
I tend to prefer moving magnet cartridges, as the seem lees perfect, but more involving. Is this not the case when dealing with linn cartridges?
Would this upgrade make me want a *cap for my 92 even more? And in this case would a flatcap do? And also would this upgrade make me want a better arm and then better preamp and on and on and on? What do You think?
Posted on: 26 November 2001 by Manu
My suggestion (you will have a lot)
Upgrade the preamp first.
You can find a second hand 72 (even 32.5) and sell your 92. It won't cost a lot (about 300usd).
92 can't restitute the full potential of your Sondek as it is now.
You said amps are 92/92, i suppose you mean 92/90.
If it is the case, go for a 140.
A 72/140 is even more involving than a 92/90
Afterward, it will be worth upgrading your LP12.
Emmanuel
Posted on: 27 November 2001 by Phil Barry
I disagree strongly with Manu on this.
It reads to me as if your 'collapse' of the sound is what I think of as 'congestion'. For me, when I start hearing congestion, I want to upgrade.
I started from a base such as yours, and I found the two biggest bangs to be an arm upgrade and a PSU. I did the PSU first, but either is a good starting point.
I've never thought the Akito II was much of an improvement over the Akito I, but I never listened in detail to the II - however, Ittoks are available, and it's a great arm at relatively low cost.
Similarly, a hicap added to the 92 will improve reproduction at the frequency extremes and clean up congestion all over the spectrum. The hicap also prepares you for a bump to 102 or 82.
BTW, I'm assuming your budget is limited and you'r willing to buy used. In the US a good Ittok costs less than a used hicap. Personally, I'd go the hicap route - it'll improve even a low end CD player, I think. More important, the hicap really improves the 'involvement' factor.
Regards.
Phil
Posted on: 27 November 2001 by Simon Matthews
I would get an arrow, it is much better than an ittok and akito. The akito would not do justice to the klyde ( although there are better cartridges around than the klyde for the same money ). The k18 could then be improved with a d17mk2 dynavector or maybe its cheaper brother. I think you would really notice these changes, further down the road a prefix is very nice.
With your CD3.5, I think you would be very surprised by the more analogue presentation with the introduction of a power supply, especially a hicap.
With the amplification the most cost effective improvement would be to get apower supply for your 92.
I would start with the front end first
Posted on: 27 November 2001 by Tony L
quote:
Anyway, I don't intend to reopen the cd-vs-vinyl discussion, but as I might sell my 3,5, I'll be able to spend some money on the vinyl route. And even if you talk me into keeping it, I think I'll upgrade anyway. I'm not desperately selling my cd in order to upgrade the analogue path, but simply because I feel I don't need it in my life.
If you are sticking with vinyl as your main source the areas I would want to attack would be the arm and cartridge. How well to attack them depends on how much you want to spend, a decent second hand Ittok would not break the bank, and that would enable you to use a decent moving coil cartridge. Obviously if you can run to one of the high end LP12 arms, then that is the way to go. I definitely see the Akito / K18 as being the weakest part of your vinyl replay system, and see their replacement as being a far higher priority than doing anything down stream.
I feel the CD3.5 sits at a very awkward point in the market, its performance is below what I personally consider as a minimum for CD replay to be taken seriously if you are used to a decent vinyl system, I reckon this starts with the CDI, CD2, & CDX. The CD3.5 was however not a cheap product, I am not implying that it was bad value, it certainly held up against its competitors, but my problem is that IMHO you can't do CD well for just over a grand. So if you can't do it, why spend that much! A second hand Rotel 965BX for about 100 quid would be fine for a second source just to play the stuff that really is unavailable on vinyl. If you agree with me it would mean that you could free up some cash, and perhaps go for a second hand Ekos or Aro in place of that Ittok. For cartridges look at the Ortofon MC25FL, Dynavector DV10x4, Audio Technica OC9 etc. All will kill the K18 in every way.
I have no idea about your AVI speakers, I have heard the Nu-Neutrons and quite liked them, but I don't have a clue as to how easy or not they are to drive. The 90 is certainly not the most powerful amp in the world, so this may actually be where some of the congestion you are hearing is coming from, though I would not recommend upgrading the back end at this point. If power is a problem I would look to finding some easy to drive speakers on the second hand market, say Intro 2s so you could keep on chipping away at the front end with improvements. As an example, once the LP12 is sorted, and assuming you really don't care about CD, then I would go for a 102 or 82 next (jump the 72, it is not a big enough jump from the 92).
Tony.
Posted on: 27 November 2001 by woodface
I would replace the arm with an ittock - it is easily the most cost-effective upgrade for your system. They are available for between £150 - £300 but remember condition is more important than age! The flat-cap/high-cap route is a good one but I would be tempted to save up for a 2nd hand 102 or 82. Your system is very similar to mine a couple of years back. The ittock is a great arm for the money - I have recently uipgraded to the ekos which although superior shows how much the older arm did right.
Posted on: 27 November 2001 by JRHardee
I never really liked my Karik/Numerik until I replaced an old Linn preamp (LK-1) with a 102/Hicap/PSC. For some reason, the improvement was much more obvious in the CD player than in my LP-12/Ekos/Karma. Who knows why? Unless there is a lot more new vinyl available in Denmark than there is in the States, I would not walk away from the CD format.
Posted on: 27 November 2001 by count.d
I would definitely upgrade the arm.
As your volume goes up you are experiencing amplification of any problems at the source.
A higher quality arm would help solve this.
Depends on your budget, but an Ekos would serve you well for a long, long time.
