LP12 most "overrated" TT of all times ?

Give his pages a good read. He appears to have no problem with recommending things that he admits to have never heard before.

As far as the statement in question, maybe. . .maybe not.

Judd

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has anyone of you ever compared an LP12 to a Transrotor or a Clearaudio 'Champion'?

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No, but I have done the comparison with the Evolution, which is at least one model up from the Champion and in my opinion it was comprehensively better than my LP12/Lingo/Aro (at Phase 8 Mana) especially when you take the new prices into consideration.

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

Alco

you owe it to yourself to buy an LP12. Save yourself from the sludgy trip down Diahhrea Drive as you chase after "more affordable" options - you know it's the only one which makes sense - especially in light of the magic it will provide with your Nait 2 and Kans. You have been warned (or do we need to remind you of other amps and funny round-earth detours?).

Otherwise dig yourself up a Xerses - but the LP12 is what yer really after. You might find it "more expensive", but I'd wager you'll also quickly discover that will be experienced as "best value" as soon as you've netted one. Others please note - this is not a broad swipe at the Xerses (which I dig), just tailored to Alco's particular system.

As for that guy's opinon - he's entitled to it (Arse). But being that it exists elsewhere in cyberspace, is there really any need to reproduce it here? What next, a recommendation for the Blue Point Special?

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

In my view a Clearaudio Champion is a sterile uncommunicative player by comparison to the LP12 - and I don't even like the LP12 that much!

Yes, did the A/B against LP12 and Rega. Thought the Clearaudio was very good in a HiFi information retrieval way, but it just wasn't musical in my view.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

I believe every major city has one of these round-earth guys; they are from the contingent that believes in "balanced" hi-fis and that records do sound better than CDs. However their enthusiasm with turntables is hampered by their lack of knowledge in turntable set-up. My local LP-12 basher had one in his shop used and spoke how it was overated. Upon close inspection the LP-12 didn't bounce very well and a look underneath (the baseboard was removed) showed the P-clip upside down and backward and the armcable was touching the back spring. This dealer told me this was intentional as it was the only way to anchor the fat "custom" arm cable! Then looking at the Ittok I noticed it was set too high so the dealer moved it without loosening the set screw on the arm pillar. He claimed it was tight enough. Also, the cartridge was misaligned (and also loose; he didn't want to crack it) and the turntable was on a massive wall cabinet. I listened to it in comparison to an old AR with the same cartridge and by-golly the AR sounded better!! No surprise. In other words; a guy who's been selling expensive turntables for several decades doesn't know the first thing about proper set-up.

Some of you may get a kick out of this one; the same guy says that the only reason the LP-12 became popular in the U.S. is because of the marketing genius of Gary Warzin at Audiophile Systems!!!! And that it's always been overated. He also claims that the reason you can follow the tune so well on an LP-12 is that it's a trick Linn use; they designed the Ittok like a tuning fork, it unnaturaly takes music that is out of tune and puts it in tune. Just a simple gimmick and anyone can do it!!!!

Concerning this "overated" business about the LP-12. If a lot of customers and reviewers can be hoodwinked into believing that the LP-12 was superior when it isn't, what about all the accessories companies who make add-ons for the LP-12? They must truly believe in the product and use it to come up with R&D. Over the years there have been made special for the LP-12: custom arm-boards, tonearm cables, tonearm counterweights, plinths, screws and bolts, feet, etc.
Years ago Sound Organization, then AudioTech, then Mana made stands specifically for the LP-12. Today you can find 7 or 8 companies making custom motor-drives for the LP-12. Naim have gone so far as to design the most expensive phono section available and it is designed to only fit inside an LP-12!!!

Name one other turntable that has even come close to that kind of dedication from rival manufacturers.

More importantly, when was the last time you heard someone say "Getting my Goldmund Reference was the component that did it for me, it got me listening to records all over again and rediscovering my record collection". Something said daily about the LP-12 worldwide.

Ron The Mon,
Arch Kan defender and wall driller.

Hi folks,

I just found a s/h LP12 at a HiFi store in Holland. They're only selling s/h audio.

They're offering a black LP12/valhalla/Zeta arm/? cartridge for 800,- UKP! (is that a fair price?)

There's also a picture included in the ad.

Whatta ya guys think ?
(isn't the platter a little too high ?)

Greeting,
Alco

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Whatta ya guys think ?
(isn't the platter a little too high ?)

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If the condition is ok jump at it. The Zeta is a stunning arm, IMHO one of the best things that you can put on a LP12 (I really want one myself!). I preferred it in a direct dem against a early Ekos and Aro, sound wise it is kind of a mid point between those two arms having the openess and musicallity of the Aro, but with the bass weight and control of the Ekos. A friend of mine ran the Zeta on his LP12 for years, and it was a superb arm.

The downside is that Zetas were prone to sticky bearings, and are sadly no longer repairable (I think their maker either died or became very ill). I would free-float the arm with the antiskate off and just gently blow the arm across the platter, then check the up and down movement in the same way. You can normally see any sticky points.

Just be careful that everything is in good condition. Don't worry about the platter height, thats just set by three springs inside the plinth - just allow some cash to take it to a competent Linn dealer for a service (new belt / springs / oil etc). Choose the dealer carefully.

Looks like you may have found a good'un.

Tony.

I've just had a close look at the picture, and a couple of things ring alarm bells:

First, it is black, yet has a fluted plinth IIRC the black finish was on a smooth plinth. Has it been refinished? If so it is in my opinion worth far less.

Secondly there is a dark patch on wood of the top plinth next to the arm - is this a hole for the old type of lid with a little arm prop thing to keep it up? If so this is a very old deck, it was changed in 79. If this is the case it is too expensive even allowing for the higher second hand value in Europe.

Tony.

Hi Tony,

Thanx for your comments. Unfortunately, I haven't got the chance to check the condition of this LP12 first! (the store is too far away)
(I also think it's a refinished one, because of the fluted, black plinth.

risky stuff actually,eh ?!

regards,
Alco

Tony is right, this is a very old deck, the very early black finishes were fluted, and the notch for the lid prop gives it away. It is probably fluted on all four sides. It has Valhalla and the newer style lid, which add a little value. (Valhallas should be available free from various junk boxes, I'm sure I have a loose one somewhere)

The equivalent age and finish, looking better, but without an arm or Valhalla went for £360 on EBay recently.

And therefore it's way too much money, probably double what its actually worth, and the Zeta arm is another demerit from a value pov, I think they are really too heavy for the LP12 causing setup and setup longevity problems coupled with their lack of current serviceability. Hold out for an Ittok.

FWIW Audio Excellence in Bristol are listing a second hand LP12/Lingo/Ekos for £1195, and Audio-T in Epsom list an armless one for £450.

Paul

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And therefore it's way too much money, probably double what its actually worth, and the Zeta arm is another demerit from a value pov, I think they are really too heavy for the LP12 causing setup and setup longevity problems coupled with their lack of current serviceability. Hold out for an Ittok.

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I will happily swap my Ittok for a Zeta should anyone have one lying around! The Zeta is heavy, but it is a fabulous sounding arm on a LP12.

Tony.

You are in more of a position to cope with the effects of the arm on the suspension than many.

Nevertheless I think from an advice pov conservatism rules in this case.

And, IIRC, JMH liked the Zeta...

Paul