I need help with my tweeters in Isobaricks

quote:

He scared me so badly I used an alias to keep away from his clutches.

oh gees.

It's only the internet, you know...

One remedy to keep the scratchy tweeters off the Briks is to use the new reference Snaxo and amplifiers.

What is the vintage of your 'Briks?
From what I understand newer Scanspeak tweeters have the different sensitivity from the older ones and they are not ideal drop-ins.

So Kuma, you were'nt around back then, so what do you know. Generally, good advice is if you can't be helpful, don't. You end up sounding like a smart ass.
Harry

Harry:

Sorry can't help with your question but you might also try posting on the Pink Fish Media forum. Several of the people from the old Naim forum are there who would have experience with Isobariks and might be able to advise. Even Vuk posts every now and then - by the way, IMO it was Vuk's postings that made the old Naim forum discussions interesting and often well worth reading.

Paul

quote:

Originally posted by Harry Street:
So Kuma, you were'nt around back then, so what do you know. Generally, good advice is if you can't be helpful, don't. You end up sounding like a smart ass.

Harry,

I'd rather be a smart ass than a spineless wuss.

Vuk is still around at the PFM. He's all right as far as I can see.

Kuma

Not only are a smart ass, you are an ignorant smart ass.



Harry

Paul B

Vuk certainly added a lot to the Corner. I don't know all that came down leading to Vuk's banishment, but yes, I think you are right, things were more lively and the Corner is the poorer for his going. Ultimately several of the really interesting guys moved on, maybe to the PFM, or maybe it was a cycle where people had done their thing and lost interest.. At any rate, things certainly are quieter now. Of course we have Kuma who is trying very hard to stir things up. He is no Vuc though.

Harry

Kuma

Sorry buddy, I overlooked your question about my bricks. They were the last generation and had the cross-overs placed in the base of the stand. This meant an easy conversion to an active system.

I don't know about current Scanspeak tweeters. The Hiquphon tweeter was used by Linn to replace the original Scanspeak tweeters, or maybe it was the other way around. At any rate Oskar Wroending in Denmark is still making the Hiquphon tweeters so I am sure he is one source. However someone mentioned a Linn tweeter used with Kan speakers. I am not sure of the spelling, but I think it was called mollydiam, or some such. Hopefully some one will know what I am getting at and put me straight.

In the meantime, be nice. You look better when you smile.

Harry

quote:

Originally posted by Harry Street:
Not only are a smart ass, you are an ignorant smart ass.

Harry,

Let's get back to your original query.
I know for the fact your treble problems are exasperated by the Olive kit which does not have enough treble extension and decays.
At very least, you ought to look into replacing the Xovers.

Altho, I still don't understand why on earth you listen to the tweeters alone.
Most music sounds horrible with just tweeters running.

I ran a very old pair with original Scan tweets ( 25 years old plus ) albeit passive, with 250.2 and 500 could not detect excessive brightness. Only time they sounded stressed was with a passive 250.2 at a high SPL.

the Olive kit can sound merciless especially running active.

quote:

Of course we have Kuma who is trying very hard to stir things up. He is no Vuc though.

I am no keyboard bully.'

And certainly, I did not mean to stir you up.
But it is hard for me to comprehend a grown man intimidated by a stranger on the internet. Unless of course, someone makes a death threat, that's another matter. ( actually, this happened to a friend of mine. )

Kuma

My 135's are silver framed, recently recapped. The 250's are Olive as are the 52/SC, CDS2/XPS, and Snax0 3-6 and Hi/cap.

It is my practice to turn of the amps. I leave the 52/SC on 24/7. When powering up the amps I happened to start with the 135's. Before the 250's cut in, the 135's through the tweeters were making a God awful sound. I can't figure out how such awful sound can be improved by turning on the 250's but there it was. So I am not sure if there is a need to replace those squaking tweeters that sound just fine otherwise. Im kind of hoping Laurie, or other Brik owners have an insight or comment.
Tis all.

As for being intimidated. I am not sure I would go down that road until you know where I have been and with whom and under what circumstances. Not manybooks can be read through the cover.

By the way, I went over to PFM and registered there. I have to wait now until they approve me, or something.

Harry

Harry,

I think I may have Briks that are not much different from yours. They originally had crossovers built into a panel on the bottom of the speaker cabinet (late 80s versions). I later added the large passive crossovers that fit into the stands sometime in the early 90s.

About a year ago, I realized that my tweeters were well past their prime. I first noticed when playing the HiFi News Test Record/ LP (name?), which is used to set up tonearms and cartridges. On the album there is a "sweep" that runs from 20hz up to 20,000hz. When it hit the very high frequencies, I could hear my (then current) tweeters crap out and distort extensively. It sounded like someone was crumpling up a piece of paper (while all other frequencies sounded fine). Not so good I thought! My old Linn tweeters were the Hiquofon (spelling?) versions with the word “Linn” inscribed in the front. They had two rings around their circumference.

Based on the advice of Ron the Mon and others, I replaced my original Linn tweeters with some brand new Linn Neodymium tweeters. The difference in musicality, clarity, prat, “cleanness” of the sound, sweetness and reduction in hash was fairly dramatic. I would say that the transformation was at least equivalent to the sort of difference that you would get from upgrading either an amp (250 to 135s) or a pre-amp. For the first time the speakers “disappeared”. They filled the room even better than before. It was interesting that the new tweeters affected not only the highs but pretty much all frequencies across the board. The bass was much tighter sounding and seemed to play lower. All frequencies seemed to “stop and start” much faster – no more slop. Also fewer “sour notes” on pianos etc.

I have find that I now listen to much more music than I did before. I “connect” better on an emotional level. My system is pretty much playing music all the time when I am home.

To be honest, I don’t know how the neodymium tweeters compare with new Hiquofons (spelling?) or Scanpeaks, but I do like what I am hearing. I’ve never heard Briks sound this good! I used to sell them and install them in the 80s.

My system is LP12/Ekos/ArchivB/Lingo, 52/SC, NAP500, passive Briks. I also use a NAT01 for FM and a Sony SCD-777 for SACD and the occasional CD.

If you try to acquire a set of the tweeters that I am describing, you should tell the dealer that you want the neodymium tweeters that are used in Linn Ninka speakers. They are pretty cheap – under $250 USD for a set of four.

Mark

The sound of tweeters alone you describe sounds like the sound of tweeters alone. OTOH new tweeters might well sound even better.

The current Linn 'Neodymiums' are very cheap and many think they are an improvement. The crossover may need a small adjustment since they are more sensitive. This is easy with an active system.

There should be good reference material regarding drive units for Isobariks in the PFM FAQ forum.

Paul

Mark and Paul

Mark:

Yes it was the Neodymiums I had heard about. Boy their price is a lot less expensive than the Hiquphon that run about $600. cdn for set of 4.The tip about asking for Ninka tweeters is just the kind of help I was hoping for.

Paul:

The point is I don't know what tweeters alone should sound like. These sound just awful and I am left wondering how in the world they become musical when the mid and bass drivers are engaged. However your observation about " sounding like tweeters sound like " really poses the question of wether or not the test of tweeters is the quality of the music all drivers playing and not how tweeters sound by themselves. I gather your position is ignore how tweeters sound by themselves.

Anyway thanks guys all three of you have put
things in a different light.

What would life be without a little mystery. Eh!

Harry

quote:

Originally posted by Harry Street:
...but yes, I think you are right, things were more lively and the Corner is the poorer for his going.

Reckon things are more "lively" in Baghdad these days too, compared to a few years back. Suppose it's personal preference that determines whether "lively" is a good thing or not.

Moved to the Padded Cell:

This thread, from a new member, had quickly deteriorated into a slagging match between you and kuma.

In addition, although not the reason for the move, discussion of banned members is normally frowned upon in other forums and is will be discouraged here.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Ranson:
The sound of tweeters alone you describe sounds like the sound of tweeters alone. OTOH new tweeters might well sound even better.

Exactly what I was about to say. Back when I was even more stupid and a little less old than I am now, I had biwired MS25is off an Audiodrab 8000A. One speaker's bass cables fell out while playing Beastie Boys' "Licenced to ill" at an obscenely high level, and the tweeter sounded REALLY rough. The tweeter only outputs a tiny amount of sound in comparison to a bass/mid driver, and on all the biwireable speakers *I've* heard with the woofers disconnected, the tweeters ALWAYS sound shrieky, irrespective of souce/amps/etc.

Domfjbrown

Your seemed to have captured what I was going on about. Your post along with other's puts my mind at rest. Thanks for writing.

Thanks all - your comments were helpful

Harry

Mark Russell

I have re-read your post. What you say is helpful. Especially about playing a test tone. Before I got my briks I had Sarah 9s. One day a freind walked in and immediately said my tweeters were off. I could not hear what he heard, but on the strength of what he said I changed the tweeters. We heard a very definite improvement and were pleased we had made the change. So that experience is in my mind too when I am wondering about my current tweeters.

Any way I will run a frequency test and see or hear, what it tells me. If we change tweeters I will go with the neodyniums.

Thanks for taking the time to write as you did.

Take care

Harry