Dylan documentary
Posted by: Wolf on 27 September 2005
Last night on US public stations there was a new film about Dylan from Scorsesee. Really well done. Lots of talking head remembering Greenwich Village and the bohemian life in NY late 50s to 60s. It's in two parts 2 hrs each. Tonight we get into his going electric even tho they spiced up some of the earlier portion with scenes from his own filmed apperance in England at that time with The Band. Still good to see Pete Seeger, Maria Muldaur, Joan Baez and others talk about the period. And amazingly Dylan too, he chats amiably about his past, I thought he was rather surly and difficult in real life, but then you are getting the best film maker you might as well do this once and do it well. He always did want to be a lead in a movie. Looking forward to tonight's second half. I was a bit young for his early period, but I do remember well when Lay Lady Lay hit the waves, boy was that wonderful.
Posted on: 28 September 2005 by BigH47
Wolf
It was on the last 2 nights on BBC2. 2 X 1.5 hrs over here(no ad breaks).I still to watch all of the second one. I found it pretty interesting. Like you it was good to see some of the others are still around. I learned a few things I had not known. So altogether a good programme.
Finished it now. I don't remember the booing on the "electric" tour. Mind I liked both siides of BD. Never was that much of a folk purist.
I've always loved the way Dylan dealt with the barrage of shite questions he (and other artists) have to endure. I'm surprised more don't ignore or turn them back .
Just playing H61 Revisited my original mono edition(slightly too much surface noise unfortunately). It's still great though.
Howard
It was on the last 2 nights on BBC2. 2 X 1.5 hrs over here(no ad breaks).I still to watch all of the second one. I found it pretty interesting. Like you it was good to see some of the others are still around. I learned a few things I had not known. So altogether a good programme.
Finished it now. I don't remember the booing on the "electric" tour. Mind I liked both siides of BD. Never was that much of a folk purist.
I've always loved the way Dylan dealt with the barrage of shite questions he (and other artists) have to endure. I'm surprised more don't ignore or turn them back .
Just playing H61 Revisited my original mono edition(slightly too much surface noise unfortunately). It's still great though.
Howard
Posted on: 28 September 2005 by Guido Fawkes
I've watched it all on BBC2 - it was really well done and Dylan was articulate and interesting to listen to. Lots of excellent footage too.
I enjoyed it.
I enjoyed it.
Posted on: 28 September 2005 by Alex S.
What ROTF said.
Posted on: 29 September 2005 by Wolf
I discussed this with a friend and he feels Scorsesee got to the artistic truth and narrative showing his genius. By the time it ended Dylan was just fed up with being on the road which is why he was so difficult with fans and the media specifically. All wanting a piece of him or the last word on society's ills. He was just a song writer for goodness sake.
I read a biography and it didn't give insight to much of that. But then this film didn't mention how he was screwed financially by Grossman his manager who got 50% of royalties, for almost nothing. Bobby's fault for trusting and not reading the contract. He had to go to court to reverse that when he switched managers.
I was just too young back then to realize how important he was. Wish I had a copy of Highway 61, Will have to look for that one in the future. It was interesting to see how that electrification came about. I know about the Band, but not Al Kooper and Mike Bloomfield.
I thought Dylan's comments to be very interesting and most worthwhile.
I read a biography and it didn't give insight to much of that. But then this film didn't mention how he was screwed financially by Grossman his manager who got 50% of royalties, for almost nothing. Bobby's fault for trusting and not reading the contract. He had to go to court to reverse that when he switched managers.
I was just too young back then to realize how important he was. Wish I had a copy of Highway 61, Will have to look for that one in the future. It was interesting to see how that electrification came about. I know about the Band, but not Al Kooper and Mike Bloomfield.
I thought Dylan's comments to be very interesting and most worthwhile.
Posted on: 29 September 2005 by Diode100
There is a DVD called "Festival" about the Newport Folk Festiavl when Dylan first went electric. They play Maggies Farm, and Mike Bloomfield really gets to grips with the situation. Contary to all reports Dylan wasn't booed for the performance, the jeering only started after the set finished after only, I think, four numbers.
I was at one of the 1966 Albert Hall Concerts, and I can confirm that they did indeed play "f*cking" loud. The concert was filmed, some of which I believe was used in the "Eat The Document" TV show that has circulated on bootleg DVD.
I was at one of the 1966 Albert Hall Concerts, and I can confirm that they did indeed play "f*cking" loud. The concert was filmed, some of which I believe was used in the "Eat The Document" TV show that has circulated on bootleg DVD.
Posted on: 30 September 2005 by David O'Higgins
This film is wonderful. Everyone should have it - I believe that it comes out on DVD on Monday. It makes sense of Bob's music without recourse to anything else. I first got hooked in 1965 when he appeared on 'Top of the Pops' and sang all of 'Like a Rolling Stone' in 6.5 Minutes - an unheard of allowance at the time! I was 12 years old.
If my memory is right, the Byrds appeared on the same TOTP with 'All I really want to do'. Magic memory.
If my memory is right, the Byrds appeared on the same TOTP with 'All I really want to do'. Magic memory.
Posted on: 01 October 2005 by Chumpy
Fine film, especially IMO the first bit as shown in UK. Handy way at end of getting decent copy of TBOTGS, and of course a bit of 'The Coo Coo Bird' & 'Hang me, oh hang me'.
Unlike many, I like all of the Dylan films, even the ones where he is officially paid to act.
Unlike many, I like all of the Dylan films, even the ones where he is officially paid to act.
Posted on: 04 October 2005 by Ricky Dasler
Read a rumour on http://www.expectingrain.com that Dylan is in negotiations regarding a part 2.
Posted on: 05 October 2005 by Mike Hughes
So is it just me then?
I love Dylan although I'm not obsessive about it. Somewhere along the line a great film will be made. This was not it.
I had a very interesting discussion with my staff on this and several felt that visually it made a great radio programme. Having played much of DVD 1 in exactly that way I have to say I agree. Visually Scorsese has made a radio documentary.
Now, having said that, some (and I do mean only some) of that footage was amazing and the specific interview with Bob was extremely well done. Personally I would have benefitted from just seeing the whole of the interview. However, some amazing footage does not necessarily make for a great film.
Other issues - well for starters why make the film? Most/many people simply don't "get" Dylan and then don't see his significance beyond the most basic things. I was hoping this was going to be the film that changed that and it's certainly the film that needs to be made. Frankly, it didn't and it wasn't. Speak to non-believers and there ain't a one of them that has been converted by that film. To me that makes it a nice, cosy film for those of us "in the know" but just irrelevant for the rest and if you're just going to preach to the converted then what is the point.
Me, I was disappointed. It's a good watch and bears repeated viewings but it really isn't that great IMHO.
Mike
I love Dylan although I'm not obsessive about it. Somewhere along the line a great film will be made. This was not it.
I had a very interesting discussion with my staff on this and several felt that visually it made a great radio programme. Having played much of DVD 1 in exactly that way I have to say I agree. Visually Scorsese has made a radio documentary.
Now, having said that, some (and I do mean only some) of that footage was amazing and the specific interview with Bob was extremely well done. Personally I would have benefitted from just seeing the whole of the interview. However, some amazing footage does not necessarily make for a great film.
Other issues - well for starters why make the film? Most/many people simply don't "get" Dylan and then don't see his significance beyond the most basic things. I was hoping this was going to be the film that changed that and it's certainly the film that needs to be made. Frankly, it didn't and it wasn't. Speak to non-believers and there ain't a one of them that has been converted by that film. To me that makes it a nice, cosy film for those of us "in the know" but just irrelevant for the rest and if you're just going to preach to the converted then what is the point.
Me, I was disappointed. It's a good watch and bears repeated viewings but it really isn't that great IMHO.
Mike
Posted on: 06 October 2005 by fred simon
.
Mike, I think a film whose intent is to convert those who don't get Dylan would be tedious beyond compare. Scorsese is too smart to have even tried.
Scorsese's wonderful achievement was to make a film deeply redolent of the contextual world of Dylan and the the times which were a-changin', and speaking as someone who experienced that first hand, the film is remarkable.
By the way, I also highly recommend Dylan's own Chronicles, Vol. 1, a poetic literary analogue of the film.
.
Mike, I think a film whose intent is to convert those who don't get Dylan would be tedious beyond compare. Scorsese is too smart to have even tried.
Scorsese's wonderful achievement was to make a film deeply redolent of the contextual world of Dylan and the the times which were a-changin', and speaking as someone who experienced that first hand, the film is remarkable.
By the way, I also highly recommend Dylan's own Chronicles, Vol. 1, a poetic literary analogue of the film.
.
Posted on: 15 October 2005 by Mike Hughes
Fred,
I remain unconvinced.
I suppose my perspective is that I am putting aside the fact that Dylan was the subject and then saying that, objectively, it was not a great film. There were many great things in it but I still don't think it was so well done that it can make legitimate claim upon greatness. I agree on the contextualising stuff but even that was overdone at the outset and had the feel of those modern biographies that set the scene with so much tedious detail you almost cease to care.
I also think that Scorsese has made a film for himself that doesn't translate for others. All artists must ultimately please themselves first and foremost but art also has to connect and, for me, it didn't. It was bitty and overlong in some places whilst too short in others. A lot of that is personal opinion but I think objectively that's also the view of several reviewers of some merit (TV and film).
I should probably also clarify. I wasn't asking for a film to convert but rather a film that could explain and enlighten. This went some way down that road but never quite made it. If you've an interest in and a knowledge of music in any way then you would connect with bits of it but people with an interest in music or history and without the knowledge wouldn't make head or tail of that IMHO.
Mike
I remain unconvinced.
I suppose my perspective is that I am putting aside the fact that Dylan was the subject and then saying that, objectively, it was not a great film. There were many great things in it but I still don't think it was so well done that it can make legitimate claim upon greatness. I agree on the contextualising stuff but even that was overdone at the outset and had the feel of those modern biographies that set the scene with so much tedious detail you almost cease to care.
I also think that Scorsese has made a film for himself that doesn't translate for others. All artists must ultimately please themselves first and foremost but art also has to connect and, for me, it didn't. It was bitty and overlong in some places whilst too short in others. A lot of that is personal opinion but I think objectively that's also the view of several reviewers of some merit (TV and film).
I should probably also clarify. I wasn't asking for a film to convert but rather a film that could explain and enlighten. This went some way down that road but never quite made it. If you've an interest in and a knowledge of music in any way then you would connect with bits of it but people with an interest in music or history and without the knowledge wouldn't make head or tail of that IMHO.
Mike
Posted on: 15 October 2005 by fred simon
.
I understand your clarification, Mike, but in fact you had said "Speak to non-believers and there ain't a one of them that has been converted by that film."
I don't place much stock in explaining art, but I do think the film successfully communicated the intangible feel and spirit of the times and of Dylan's achievement.
All the best,
Fred
.
quote:Originally posted by Mike Hughes:
I should probably also clarify. I wasn't asking for a film to convert but rather a film that could explain and enlighten.
I understand your clarification, Mike, but in fact you had said "Speak to non-believers and there ain't a one of them that has been converted by that film."
I don't place much stock in explaining art, but I do think the film successfully communicated the intangible feel and spirit of the times and of Dylan's achievement.
All the best,
Fred
.