Help please...I want to buy a naim!
Posted by: Stan on 18 January 2003
Hi all,
Checked out the Naim CD5 + Nait5 + Intro2. Love the sound but found it a bit 'harsh' - my ears ache after listening to 2-3 tracks, this was my second visit and it happened both times. I wonder if this happened to anyone else cause my dealer said this has never happened before. I listened to some classical guitar, Sting and some Natalie Cole, among a few other CD's. Was really surprised (and worried) that my ear started aching after listening to such cool/mellow stuff! I listen to a lot of Steve Vai/Instrumental rock/and Jazz Rock and did not play the same for the Demo-couldn’t handle it.
The dealer also played me a Linn system - Ikemi+Wakonda+LK140+Ninka. The moment I listened to the Linn my ears stopped aching. The sound was good but the details and transparency of the Naim was missing, found the Linn warmer and more musical, but felt as if a 'veil' was covering the sound.
Both systems were in different rooms. Naim room larger and Linn in a smaller room.
1. I want to buy the Naim because I love the sound.
2. Dealer says a 115/150 with flatcap2 will sort out the harshness/edginess of the sound.
3. He does not have the 115/150/FC2 in stock, so can't demo. I will have to order blind.
4. I tried the CD5 and Nait 5 with Ninka (smaller demo room) which was smoother and added a little more bass too, but the Naim transparency was missing. (my ears did not ache-so wondering if different speakers could make the difference).
Question is,
1. Will the 115/150 smooth the sound out? What difference will it make? (obviously it won’t lose the ‘Naim’ sound).
2. Will different speakers take out the harshness but still convey the transparency? The only brands available are Kef, Revel, B&W and Linn?
3. Am I better off with the Linn (which is more expensive) since I have heard the sound and it's easy to listen to + has more preamp inputs, HDCD, optic outs, XLR, etc. (but I’m not excited about it - so am not even considering it as a real option right now). The only reason I mention this option is because it’s scary ordering for something without having a listen first. Also tried the Linn system with the CD5 (in the smaller demo room), through the detail was there, was not fully happy with the sound. Prefer the CD5 and Nait 5 with Ninka (demoed in the smaller room).
What do you think is my best option?
Thanks in advance,
Stan
Posted on: 18 January 2003 by Tuan
Try the Naim series 5 with B7W N805 and see.
Posted on: 18 January 2003 by mathew farley
Im no expert but id say stick with the naim cd player and amp and audition speakers preferably at home as u can always smooth out harshnes with the speakers but u cant get speakers that will speed up a slow front end.
Posted on: 18 January 2003 by mystik
I know what you mean about the excitment factor. I'm a relative Naim newbie. I've had a cd3.5 with flat cap (helps alot to soften the sound), a Nait 3 amp and a pair of B&W CDM1SE's. I just plugged up a second hand pair of Intro speakers (later version with external crossovers) and I can't quite believe it. My £650 B&W's never really stopped winning awards from What Hi-Fi but it would appear to me that there is no substitute for Naim speakers in a full Naim system. They are clearly engineered to match perfectly.
On the Intro's all instruments sounded twice as real, I'm blown away. The whole sound is dryer and less electronic. I shut my eyes and it feels more real, live the artists are in the room not a hi-fi system!
Posted on: 18 January 2003 by Stan
Thanks hlhopffgarten,
I found your quote very useful.
I am a bit upset too that i didn't get the chance to try the system recommended but since i am in the middle east, where the demand for these systems are not very high don't really know if the dealer can offer much of a choice (?!). Plus the added fact that people are going crazy over AV...
The dealer has the KEF Q7's (i think) and said that the Ninka's were better so did not audition the KEF's will go back for a listen. I don't think Spendors are available here. Which KEF speakers would you recommend.
Since everyone agrees that the Flatcap-2 and the pre/power combo is the way forward; all i wanted to ask you is 'Do you still feel fatigued while listening to CD5+115/150/FC2 config?'
I don't have any experience with many brands but something tells me that i'll be better off choosing a full Naim system.
I asked the dealer how old the demo system was and he assured me that it was broken in.
I don't think the Cd's are bad as i tried around 8-10 different Cd's and all had the same aching result. I love the Naim sound but i listen to music all the time and won't be able to handle a system which does not allow me to listen to music!
Will definitely take your advise and check out other speakers but this can only happen once i commit and buy the 115/150/FC2 or else will it won't make sense right?
Thanks once again to all of you who took the time to respond. Cheers.
Posted on: 18 January 2003 by Mick P
Stan
I do not know where you live, but if you live anywhere Swindon, you are welcome to have a listen to my system and that will give you an idea of whether or not you like a Naim system.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 18 January 2003 by Stan
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Stan
if you live anywhere Swindon, you are welcome to have a listen to my system
Mick
I am touched Mick. Thanks for the offer. But as mentioned i am in the middle east!
This is truly a great forum. Cheers to you all.
Posted on: 18 January 2003 by Wolf
Over a year ago I bought the Naim low end separates and now have the 150 and CD5 that you want, I think it's an incredible system. Your problem is just matching it to the right speaker. I have Spendor 2/3s and like the relaxed sound, my dealer thought the Naim speakers to be a bit fatiguing in comparison. I have not auditioned any other speakers so I can't comment on that, but the electronics are great. You will not really be able to judge a speaker till you hear it in your set up. Because you are somewhat remote you might have to try out some with a return policy and get that okayed before you order.
Posted on: 18 January 2003 by mykel
Were the ninka's fully broken in?
They take a LONG time to settle. Until they do they sound a bit dull, closed in and lumpy.
just a thought...
regards,
michael
Posted on: 18 January 2003 by David Patterson
Hi Stan, you sound as if you have preferences similar to mine sound wise. I also cannot abide bright or harsh sound. I have had the CD5 112 150 and it is not harsh, but with Intros Credos or Allaes even it does come accross this way (to me). Others that have heard my system in my house disagree.This just goes to prove that hearing response coupled with personal preference make speaker choice critical to the overall enjoyment of any system no matter how good the front end is.
I have found that the balance provided by B&W speakers suit my elevated upper mid treble hearing response. A pair of speakers i have just bought that are relatively cheap (£650)and also fit the bill are Wharfedale Pacific Evolution 30 (just dont laugh), they are fab, im just waiting for the mags to dissagree.
Regards
David
Posted on: 18 January 2003 by plynnplynn
quote:
Checked out the Naim CD5 + Nait5 + Intro2. Love the sound but found it a bit 'harsh' - my ears ache after listening to 2-3 tracks, this was my second visit and it happened both times.
Could be that you will just never like the 'Naim sound' in totality. I on the other hand just love it.
Certainly you can 'change the sound' through use of Flatcap or otherwise through upgrading the electronics. Different speakers will also make a difference (Intros are thought to be too 'bright' by some) but the 'essence' of the Naim sound may be what you find difficult to listen to. You may like the detailed but 'more relaxed' sound of some other systems.
Listen again to the Linn system at your dealers then ask your dealer to switch over a Naim amp for the Linn amp using NACA5 of course. If you don't hear that there is a positive difference then stick to Linn. Personally in this situation I would expect the life to come into the music once the Naim amp is added to the system!
Terry
Posted on: 19 January 2003 by Stan
quote:
Could be that you will just never like the 'Naim sound' in totality.
Terry
Dear Terry,
I did try these combo's too,
1. CD5 with the Linn system (when we switched from Ikemi to CD5 i could immediately feel the effect on the sound and that reinforced that i love the Naim sound)
2. CD5 + Nait 5 with Ninka (nice but i still liked the Intro's sound)
Naim won all the time, and i knew i liked the sound the moment the music started playing. I do know that i love the Naim sound. I have very sensitive ears and also play the guitar and have a fairly good ear. I believe speaker selection is the key. I think the reason my ears ache is due to the amount of detail coming through in the high frequencies (which is definitely part of the excitement and attraction!). This system is not holding back, while i feel the others do.
I felt that speaker selection is the key for me even prior to this post but needed the advise on the 115/150/FC2. Based on the advise-thanks Lynn & Wolf (and my heart!) I must say that i will go ahead with the Naim separates/FC2 and audition the speakers suggested once the units arrive. Will let you all know how it goes.
Thank you all (can't say that enough!).
Regards,
Stan
Posted on: 19 January 2003 by louis_lx
Don´t forget REGA ELA´s... transmition line, sweet midband, easy to live with...
I always had REGA speakers with NAIM gear. I couldn´t live with NAIM speakers INTRO and CREDO... Too harsh for me too...
Posted on: 19 January 2003 by Steve Toy
quote:
I think the reason my ears ache is due to the amount of detail coming through in the high frequencies (which is definitely part of the excitement and attraction!).
It isn't "the amount of detail," but the amount of distortion, imho.
A CD5/Flatcap2/112/150 combination into those Rega Ela (2000s) mentioned above will be a breathtaking combination.
Intros sound coloured to me, and the bass is a little woolly.
The identical-looking Credos were much better, imho, and with the right mains and equipment supports, and the right hierarchical balance of Naim electronics, sound very sweet without even a hint of top-end harshness.
I think being critical of Naim speakers re. the (harsh) top end is often a case of shooting the messenger.
Both Intros and Credos sound better (sweeter, less harsh) after 20 mins' warm-up, so quick-fire dems are not the way to go.
Regards,
Steve.
Posted on: 08 April 2003 by Stan
Hi all,
As promised am posting the feedback about my new Naim.
My Naim arrived finally on March 3, 2003. CD5+112+150+FC2+Intro2. Dealer did not come to set it up so set-up the stuff myself. Enjoyed unpacking and setting the stuff up myself, but was not happy with the sound. Thought it will sound better after a few days, and it did, but was not satisfied with the sound, the CD5+Nait+Intro2 sounded better at the dealers! Called the dealer after a week to check my system, but he finally turned up after a month.
Dealer immediately confirmed that my system was capable of much better and that the speakers were not in the right place. He changed speaker position and put it against the longer wall and it sounded infinitely better. Had to pay for extra speaker cables [since dealer gave me 5 meter cables (2 nos.) free with the system] as i now needed 7 meters (2nos). I am now happy with the sound after spending one long agonizing month wondering if had spent all my money in vain.
I have been experimenting with the speaker positions and find that moving the speakers away from each other seems to improve dynamics but reduces the bass intensity. However there is more definition to the bass notes. Will continue to experiment but was wondering if anyone could pass on a few tips to help me along.
Room size: LxB: 5.5m x 3 m
Earlier placement: Along the shorter (3m) wall, and at the corners, as a door opens towards the side of the 3m wall. No scope to move speakers into the room. Mid range ok but bass muffled, Overall Naim pace and timing, etc. missing. I had placed it against the shorter wall as the TV is in the centre of that wall and thought i could use the Naim to connect my TV system/DVD player, etc.
Dealer placement: Along the longer (5.5 m) wall, 1.2 m from the corners, and 10 cms from the back wall. Since the listening position is fairly close (2.5 m) to the speakers, the speakers are toed in at quite a sharp angle (one corner of the speaker is 10 cms from the back wall while the other corner is 19 cms from the back wall). Now i can't use the system for the TV, etc. but the difference in the sound makes up for the compromise.
Apologise for the long post and thanks in advance for any advice.
Stan
Posted on: 08 April 2003 by NB
Stan,
the only advice I can give you now is just sit back and enjoy the music.
You have only had the sistem for a month it hasn't had time to settle in yet. It will just get better and better so just enjoy it.
Regards
NB
Posted on: 08 April 2003 by syd
quote:
Originally posted by Stan:
Hi all,
My Naim arrived finally on March 3, 2003. CD5+112+150+FC2+Intro2. Dealer did not come to set it up so set-up the stuff myself.
Stan
Hi Stan. I'm a bit suprised that the dealer did'nt set it up himself as I thought that was part of the deal when buying a sistem. Did you decide that you did'nt need him or couldn't he be bothered. The dealers experience is an essential part of the setup and would have saved you a month of agonizing if you did the right thing or not. Glad to hear it's OK now.
Yours in Music
Syd
Posted on: 08 April 2003 by Stan
I wanted the dealer to come and set it up and even reminded him that he must, but the dealer said it is 'simple' to setup and you should not have any problems. He wanted to save himself a trip to my house basically. He said that he would send someone around to check the connections later.
It was 'simple' to connect the system/hook it up, but i have learn't that 'setup' is a totally different matter altogether.
Anyway he did make a difference finally, and yes he could have saved me a month of heartache.
Stan
