Help me - I don't get it

quote:

Originally posted by Bruce Woodhouse:


Good for you. I think that I was trying to say that if you strip away the attitude/sexual politics etc etc etc I don't personally see much musical talent. Don't find her attractive either actually!

Her inability to act is surely beyond debate?

Bruce

So you do not want to be convinced of her importance to women in Music then as for talent to me shes got it in spades you don't have a 25 year career without it.



Dean...

As this thread says Dean, I personally don't get it. Millions do. That is what is interesting sometimes.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Anderson:
I am hoping this might be a thread for people to notate artists popular amongst the forum who they just don't "get" ---- but, more importantly, then, a thread where responders might then suggest a better starting point or a nugget that started them on their exploration of the particular artist or what in particular attraced them to the artist - ie, overall sound, lyric content, technique, etc.



Jeff A

Dean..

quote:

Originally posted by Whizzkid:
[QUOTE]

Without Madonna you would not have a lot of the women singer songwriters like PJ Harvey, Alanis Morrisette, Tori Amos, Kd Lang and the like and popstars Beyonce, Lil Kim, even the Spice Girls now whether thats a good thing is up for debate but women in music could be more than pretty things singing Love songs.

Difficult to prove even if all those named above cite Madonna as an influence. Who was Madonna's influence? Personally I thought she was ok in Evita but in all honesty I would not cross the road to hear her live in concert but i do get why others would - I still don't get why anyone would want to go to a punk concert becuase try as I might I can't even begin to accept it is music or anything close.

Like Rotf I also don't get the Rolling Stones. I can understand spotty teenagers some decades ago wanting to shrug off Top of the Pops and show how grown up they were listening to Brown effing Sugar for the 50th time at a party where everyone has drunk too much and feeling dead clever but surely one grows out of it?

All I'm saying is before Madonna women in music were second class citizens and she as did the Rolling Stones became the bosses of their own affairs. The first true woman musical superstar, probably since Cleopatra . She might not have influenced many modern women artist but she opened the doors.



Dean..

Hi Tam, Droodzilla, Dean

Thank you for taking the time to reply. The albums I have tried were available in my local library: Sketches of Spain, Kind of Blue and Bitches Brew.

I went back to the library this morning and they had In a Silent Way - just played it, having never heard it before - and .... (insert drum roll) ..... I really like it. So much so I've ordered a copy of my own.

I also brought back Birth of the Cool, which I played the first couple of tracks from and found them very accessible and enjoyable. I'll listen to more later.

I am begging to see the light - so there is hope for me.

If it had been an artist that I didn't like then I would not have persevered, but I felt that not being able to get Miles was like announcing I don't like Mozart (I do like everything I've heard by Mozart BTW). I just felt so many folks could not be wrong and it was worth the effort - I will retry Sketches of Spain and Kind of Blue - ordered from our very fine library.

So I have decided this is very worthwhile thread.

ATB Rotf

quote:

Originally posted by Whizzkid:
All I'm saying is before Madonna women in music were second class citizens ....

Dean..

Hmmm ..... I differ a bit on that one - what about Shirley Collins, Sandy Denny, Édith Piaf, Dusty Springfield, Françoise Hardy, Aretha Franklyn, Melanie (Safka), Joni Mitchell, Kate Bush, Deborah Harry, Nina Hagen, Petula Clark, Cilla Black, Grace Slick, Janis Joplin and so on .... all pre-dated Madge and I'd sooner listen to any of them than Madge. If you're wondering about my inclusion of Cilla then please listen to If I Thought You'd Ever Change You're Mind - her greatest moment.

I think Polly Jane would have emerged with or without Madonna.

BTW Cleopatra is an interesting choice .... any recommendations?

ATB and thanks for the help with Miles Davis, Rotf

quote:

Thank you for taking the time to reply. The albums I have tried were available in my local library: Sketches of Spain, Kind of Blue and Bitches Brew.

I went back to the library this morning and they had In a Silent Way - just played it, having never heard it before - and .... (insert drum roll) ..... I really like it. So much so I've ordered a copy of my own.

I also brought back Birth of the Cool, which I played the first couple of tracks from and found them very accessible and enjoyable. I'll listen to more later.

Hi ROTF - pleased to hear you're enjoying "In a Silent Way". I also came very close to recommending "Birth of the Cool", even though it's from the other end of Miles' career - beautifully crafted jazz jewels (not sure about "Darn That Dream" though!). Miles is reknowned for being a musical chameleon, so there's no reason anyone should like everything he did - it may verge on heresy, but I've never really warmed to the collaborations with Gil Evans - Sketches of Spain included. My favourite period is the second quintet with Herbie Hancock et al, which produced such gems as "Miles Smiles" and "ESP". Good luck in your musical explorations!

quote:

Like Rotf I also don't get the Rolling Stones. I can understand spotty teenagers some decades ago wanting to shrug off Top of the Pops and show how grown up they were listening to Brown effing Sugar for the 50th time at a party where everyone has drunk too much and feeling dead clever but surely one grows out of it?

No I'm sorry I can't stand it any longer ....Let me in this thread!.....how can anyone "grow out" of Brown Sugar fer' chrissakes! ....Yeah we've all heard it a 1000 times and inevitably that may have dulled it's initial impact but c'mon a stonkin' rock n' roll record surely remains! ..sleazy yet joyous the Stones rarely bettered it....apart from Gimme Shelter ..quite possibly THE most atmospheric apocalyptic rock recording ever put down on vinyl! ....age has nothing to do with records as good as this some songs are just timeless ...great recordings are great recordings whether the artist be Beethoven or The Stones.

...Those that feel only classical music or jazz has longevity simply don't understand how powerful a great rock record can be, how complex it may (or not) be isn't the point! ..and I'm actually not really a Stones saddoe!

As for Miles Davis ...I'm with those who feels that (on his day) he's untouchable in his field (and IMHO 20th Century music in general) ..why? many have queried within this thread ...for me his playing just sounds so "sad" there's just something within his playing that connects with me ...even though I grew up with The Beatles, Stones, and later Zeppelin, Allman Bros etc etc. Sketches Of Spain is simply beautiful I personally can't see how anyone could not find it so.

..I'm very partial to certain types of jazz even if my love of fusion is not understood by ANY of my friends and I mean ANY NOT EVEN ONE ..The Mahavishnu Orchestra blasting their muso way through "One Word" on "Birds Of Fire"? scintillating!

..And then there is this complete brick wall some people have with the Sex Pistols ....and how it's apparently "not even music" ...PAH!

The thing is I admit I rarely sit and listen to "Bollocks" (the one real album the Pistols made) in the way I'd sit and listen to Miles with a large glass of red ..but ....well let's assume the neighbours are on holiday (in the sun?) and you are getting ready for a great night out (having already necked a couple of bottles of Duval) ..play "Anarchy" "Pretty Vacant" or best of all "God save The Queen" at full wack ....STUNNING!! The Pistols were never meant to be analysed!
...Take away all the tabloid hype and forget Malcolm Mclaren's bluster and those 3 singles STILL stir something almost primal within me and I guess millions of others who just "get it"

.....It's easy now to mock the lyrics of say "God Save The Queen" with the benefit of hindsight ...but at the time (and perhaps even now)no rock record had ever sounded so blatantly dangerous and so bleedin' inherently LOUD! GSTQ sounded exactly like a great rock n' roll record should sound like and still does.

Catholic taste? ..call me the pope!

P.S. ...I F***ING HATE GENESIS THOUGH!!!! how in all that's holy do I "get" Genesis?????

Though hardly a Stones fan, I have to lend my support to JJ when it comes to "Gimme Shelter". If there's a more thrilling, urgent, rock song, I've yet to hear it. Tingles at the very thought of that timeless guitar intro...

"repetitive thumping drum and base" ..."Thumping predictable base" ....erm' just in case (should you ever feel the need) to "get down with the kids" acad the term is BASS!

quote:

Originally posted by droodzilla:
My favourite period is the second quintet with Herbie Hancock et al, which produced such gems as "Miles Smiles" and "ESP". Good luck in your musical explorations!

I was fortunate to see Herbie, Ron C and Tony W as the Herbie Hancock Quartet with a very young and nearly unknown Wynton Marsalis in the trumpet chair. (Branford also came out for several tunes). Mount Hood Jazz Festival 1982 - a sublime set of music under the stars.

Jeff A

Funny I just had the urge to rant this morning. For the last 2 weeks, my Starbucks at work has been continuously playing the new Paul McCartney "Memory Always Full" abum. It is driving me nuts and I felt like asking him to please change the disc.

Frankly, there is nothing more tiring than an aging rocker trying to sound like what he was 40+ years ago.

I just do not get why it gets rave reviews and album of the month everywhere.

I also do not get Genesis, somehow they just give me the headache.

Also, being a Jazz listener, I almost feel inadequate for not getting John Coltrane. I like Bill Evans and Keith Jarrett and Miles Davis. But I tried and just do not know how to appreciate Coltrane.

Instead of boring us shitless, why don't they just go fishing or something?
Gabriel's Genesis was exciting, unique, of it's time certainly and I wouldn't listen to it now, but as a 14 year old listening to Foxtrot I was mesmerised, so how did it all come to this?

This is embarrassing. I just don't get The Bloooooze. Shoot me, but it's true. Great topic BTW.

Willem

quote:

Originally posted by willem:
This is embarrassing. I just don't get The Bloooooze. Shoot me, but it's true. Great topic BTW.

Willem

...Don't be too embarrassed Willem ..Diccus is on holiday but he doesn't get the Bloooooze either (don't get him started) despite my protestations to it's inherent worth. me (apart from Genesis!!) I also don't really get Folk ....well I sort of do but ...too much of it has the same effect on me as punk or metal do with others ...in that it all sounds rather samey to me (cue outraged Shirley Collins fans metaphorically sharpening their quills as I type!)

Actually I do like Richard Thompson but I guess what I really mean is I like him when he's shredding his strat rather than his more traditional stuff (philistine that I am)

...And why is it that nearly every other traditional folk song deals with some poor old 18th century sod being hung? - jeez depressing or what? AND (adopts Alan Partridge voice) they all sing with their fingers in their ears so there!!
.....Yes I know the blooooze are depressing but that's different ok!

quote:

Originally posted by JYOW:
I also do not get Genesis, somehow they just give me the headache.

Also, being a Jazz listener, I almost feel inadequate for not getting John Coltrane. I like Bill Evans and Keith Jarrett and Miles Davis. But I tried and just do not know how to appreciate Coltrane.

....Does anybody (jazz fan or otherwise) get Sun Ra? jeeez ....what a racket!

JJ,
i bought a Sun Ra record and listened to it once and thought it was bollocks. So did the usual and went back to it a few months later.....and its still bollocks!! So gave it away to someone I didn't really like

I don't really get the White Stripes and made this clear in the thread about them. I can appreciate them as a (band) but still think there are other bands like them that do it better. I'd go listen to the Yeah Yeah Yeah's instead!! Their last record was amazing.

Theres lots of great stuff out there and lots of stuff of interest even though we may not [like] it, but its worth a try at least. Its not a failure on the band or the listener if you don't like it......its allowed!!!

But a great thread all the same

Ryan

quote:

Originally posted by Jet Johnson:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by willem:
...in that it all sounds rather samey to me (cue outraged Shirley Collins fans metaphorically sharpening their quills as I type!) ...And why is it that nearly every other traditional folk song deals with some poor old 18th century sod being hung? - jeez depressing or what?

Rock music 40 years
Classical music 400 years
Folk music forever

Jet - honestly Anthems In Eden and Folk Roots, New Roots sound nothing like one another and are surely two of the greatest records ever made. I don't think I'm biased when I say Shirley can do no wrong and the queen of folk should be Queen of England -- outraged Shirley Collins fan

Now, it is not true that folk songs deal with some poor old sod being hung and please listen to Babbacombe Lee by Fairport Convention as proof. This is a jolly concept album about John 'Babbacombe' Lee, dubbed the man they could not hang. This is based on the true story of Miss Emma Anne Whitehead Keyse lived alone in 'The Glen', with her servants Jane and Eliza Neck, Elizabeth Harris, the cook and her half brother John Henry George Lee. In the early hours of November 15 1884 in the hamlet of Babbacombe, Devon, Emma Keyse was discovered brutally murdered. Her throat was slit, she had three wounds to her head and the murderer had also attempted to burn the body. John had been a servant at 'The Glen' since leaving school, and in 1879, left to join the navy. After being invalided out, John returned to Torquay to work as a footman, but was convicted of stealing from his employer. John Lee was the initial suspect, being the only male in the house at the time of the murder and was found with an inexplicable cut on his arm. Although circumstantial, the evidence was enough to try and convict him of a murder to which he would always claim his innocence. "The reason I am so calm is that I trust in the Lord and he knows I am innocent." John Lee to the judge at his trial

Indeed, there does appear to be divine intervention on the day of John’s execution. He was sentenced to be hanged at Exeter Prison on 23 February 1885. James Berry, the executioner tested the trap on the scaffold and verified that it opened successfully each time. Yet John Lee became famous as ‘The man they couldn’t hang’. Three times they tried to hang Lee and three times it failed. After three failed attempts to hang Lee, his sentence was commuted to penal servitude. So it's wrong to say that folk songs deal with some poor old sod being hung, as sometimes they deal with some poor old sod who nearly gets hung, but survives

Anyway if I want a break from folk I recommend Led Zeppelin especial Led Zeppelin III - my favourite Led Zeppelin track is on this album - yes you guessed it: Gallows Pole.



ATB Rotf

Van Morrison's charms have largely managed to elude me in spite of having been surrounded by his fans for nearly 40 years. I don't really like his vocal style to be honest. Hup hup hup yup yup yup etc inserted at every opportunity spoils the moment for me I'm afraid. Less is sometimes more is my message to Van the man.

Now Simple Minds manage to leave me cold at any level.

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:

ATB Rotf

Can you buy those on eBay or a good shop? I always fancied one! Fredrik

There is a silly story of me who used to keep a noose suspended from a high beam above where I used to work many years ago. One day we had a visit from some authority or other, and I was asked by the boss to remove it, which I did, there and then. As soon as he went I put it back, so that I was inevitably asked why it was there by the "visitors!" I responded that they had no idea how much use it might be one day!

The boss was furious, and never did see the funny side of it! I was already on the way out in that job, though, so nothing was changed by it!!!

Kindest regards from Fredrik

quote:

Originally posted by bhazen:
. . . .Rupert, now that you mention it, Wilco are one of those I don't get. As before, not for lack of trying!

I think to get Wilco it makes sense to go back to Uncle Tupelo and then retrace Jeff Tweedy's arc from there. "No Depression" is the place to start, and if you like that then "16-20 March 1992" and/or "Anodyne."

After Anodyne the band slpintered into Wilco (Tweedy) and Son Volt (Jay Farrar). "Summerteeth" and then "Being There" are good stepping stones to follow Wilco's progress. "Summmerteeth" takes Wilco out of the Uncle Tupelo mode, bridging it with something a little popier, yet still holding to its past. "Being There" begins the progression into the more abstract, deconstucted sounds of "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" and "A Ghost is Born."

I think what many admire about Tweedy was his role first in helping to ressurect popular interest in the American Roots Rock genre through Uncle Tupelo; and then moving that sound (now labeled Alt-country) into a sort of roots-pop direction ("Summerteeth") and then slowly begin to deconstruct all that into the "post-rock" masterpiece of "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot." Or anyway, that's why I admire him. I also just really love the sounds he makes. A lot of critics were dissapointed by "Sky Blue Sky" because it seemed to abandon the post-rock, decosntructive arc he'd taken up in the previous three albums. I think it's brilliant for just that reason: as if he had gone through his own artistic crucible and emerged with a much stronger artistic center, with a lot of the experimental frippery finally (and finally comfortably?) shorn away. If YHF and AGB were his big creative journey's then SBS is the epiphany and release. I can't really imagine what will come next. It all seems complete.

cheers,
Daniel

For some reason my editing permission has been revoked, but if I could edit the above post then I would reverse the chronology of "Summerteeth" and "Being There" -- the commentary for "Summerteeth" going to "Being There" and vice versa.

"Summerteeth" follows "Being There" and so should the stepping stones....
dan'l