Calling Weiss Dac2 owners

I tested the DAC2 against my CDX2/XPS2/Hiline combination. The DAC2 was connected by firewire from a Mac. I used sbooth's Play (free software) rather than i-Tunes or i-Tunes/Amarra.

I was able to get the DAC2 on an extended home trial in order to make the comparison.

I now own a DAC2 and have sold the Naim combo.

I'll resist commenting...

While I may still prefer the presentation of the CDX2, I'll stay on track here also and recommend that you use the dig out from the Weiss to test the Naim DAC. I believe James N recommended same in the past. I prefer it's JET tech and you can get it via other means if you like it. It will be there to compare none the less. Try both ways.

AllenB,
I certainly hope that is the case.

Church Warden,
May I ask what music do you listen to? And in what areas do you think the Weiss outperform the CDX2?

James N,
Spill the beans!

JS,
Good suggestion, I will definately try that.

Kent - My musical tastes are somewhat electic, they include German electronic, Mali artists such as Diely Moussa Kouyate and Issa Bagayogo, female vocal like Tori Amos, Natalie Merchant, Kate Bush, folktronic such as Adem, Tunng, Four Tet, Indie like Sigur Ros and The Reindeer Section, classical such as Vaughan Williams, Grieg, and modern classical like Philip Glass, Wim Mertens.

What I found with the DAC2 was that I had more detail and control but with pretty much the same dynamics (this latter point surprised me most of all).

When I was testing the DAC2 I was actually hoping to prove to my partner that my CD player was still better than a computer solution. I was forced to admit that with the DAC2 she seemed to be correct.

I should also point out that I couldn't get the same sort of sound quality using my XP laptop (even though it had a firewire connection). However, that was probably down to me not being good enough at setting up audio out in XP. The Mac was a doddle. I understand things may be a lot easier with Vista or W7.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenB:

A few I know reckon the Weiss (plus Mac with / without Amarra) is much higher than the CDX2 (and probably the CDSII) - think CD555!!

AllenB

Dont count me in that group... Having demmed Weiss DAC2 / Mac Mini at my brothers place I would put the combo behind his playback design player and my CDS3/555PS (soon to be CD555).

While very detailed we both felt the Weiss / MM sounded "computery" and lack a sense of organic flow on 44/16 material, with the lack being reduced with 96/24+ material.

YMMV depending on the rest of your system. An audition is obviously essential but if you have a full Naim system, if the DAC is half as good as its touted then using another similar priced DAC seems daft to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Colin Lorenson:

While very detailed we both felt the Weiss / MM sounded "computery" and lack a sense of organic flow on 44/16 material, with the lack being reduced with 96/24+ material.

YMMV depending on the rest of your system.

I don't recognise that description at all, was that Mac Mini firewire?

I have the DAC2 and it's comfortably ahead of the CDS3 I previously owned. I shall enjoy comparing it to the new DAC.

I haven't heard the latest CDX2 which people tell me is much better than the previous one, I didn't like that and have always preferred the "S" players.

Joe

Joe,

We tried in ascending order of goodness

Mac Mini USB into Playback Design (which upsamples all discs and digital inputs into DSD before internal DAC)(boring, very - blame the USB)

Mac Mini - Firewire to DAC2 to pre (reasonably decent but a bit flat and mechanical)

Mac Mini Firewire to DAC2 to Playback design (DSD upsampled) to Pre ( Very good - more sparkle and life)

CD disc in Playback design ( Best of the lot) and on a par IMO with my CDS3/555PS we had there - though a different "flavour" if you know what I mean.

I remain to be convinced by computer audio as its clear that the transport / DAC / cable / Ripping methods / software etc... create many many sonic issues. Its a minefield. One herbert on this very forum today stated with all the conviction in the world that using an el cheapo transport makes no sonic difference if you have a good DAC. ermmmm no, unless you have cloth ears.

The oft-stated convenience and disc storage issues are non-issues for me and I quite like getting off my bum everyone to change CD's.

As "bought-in" a convert as the editor of the Computer Audiophile website has himself stated that no computer / DAC can (yet) do what a 555 can do, and he's auditioning new gear all the time. I plan to sit back for a few years with my CD's and shall wait and see what happens.

The Naim DAC will be interesting and I'll dem it when I can.

Very interesting Colin, the 555 didn't do enough over the CDS3 and a couple of other solutions for me (even with two 555PSs).

Like you, I await developments with interest. But I've had plenty of success with the Mac route so far, so no hardship.

Joe

Colin can you link me to the quote by Chris Connacker that 'no computer/dac can yet dowhat a 555 can do' thanks.
I sat in on a comparison between a MBP/MH ULN8 and a Naim 555 , and the mac/mh outclassed the Naim in every respect, that was using just cd's and Amarra software on the mac.

Colin - re Chris of CA.

Like DHT I would be interested to see the quote. I have found that on the 31st March 2008 he said "If you're listening to a NAIM 555 or Audio Research CD7 you'll need to spend some serious money to better their sound, but I believe it is do-able." when giving some advice about a computer solution.

Serpently Gents,

Chris's response on one of the threads on his forum

"You make a very good case that is 100% logical to me. I'll never own another CD player, unless I can get a fantastic deal on something like a NAIM 555 which is beyond what any music server can do right now. But for $30,000 I won't be jumping on it. Memory players do exactly what you suggest. They load the disc into RAM before playback. Boulder had one of these at CES, but it is $24,000. To me these are just products to bridge the gap for people not ready to jump into the music server thing. The Hovland unit had the best of both worlds. Music server functionality with 2 GB of RAM to run Linux and buffer playback of physical discs. I think there are current transports that cost 5 times as much as a Mac solution because they've been around a while and manufacturers have a lot of money put into them. They can match the price of a Mac. Plus, "old schoolers" must like those units."

__________________

Chris Connaker

Founder
Computer Audiophile


In fairness I note that the thread was from last year so maybe he has a different view now.

Gents,

The quote was "You make a very good case that is 100% logical to me. I'll never own another CD player, unless I can get a fantastic deal on something like a NAIM 555 which is beyond what any music server can do right now. But for $30,000 I won't be jumping on it."

I posted a longer reply with a link, but that seems to have been caught up, probably because of the link.

In fairness the quote in question was from a 2008 thread...

Colin - you are quite correct. The quote was made just a couple of weeks before the one I found.

Irrespective of whether it may be possible to make a computer front-end produce a better sound than a 555, it is clear that Chris considers the 555 one heck of a CD player. Unfortunately, one that will never be within my financial reach.

I don't agree with your assessment of the Weiss DAC2, but it would be a bland World if we all agreed about everything.

I was at a music concert last night - amplified acoustic and electronic equipment. The concert was great but afterwards I realised that the sound was very "at you" and, for many years, I had been wanting my system to sound like such "live" music. However, I would no longer be able to bear a system that sounded like that and that I have been moving towards a sound which is very detailed, balanced but less "look at me" and "forward". Perhaps what I now like you would call "mechanical".

Thanks for the inputs, this has been a great discussion. The opinions are definately divided.

There are so many variable in computer/network audio, I find it tough to draw conclusion unless I try it myself. However, I am definately open for suggestions. Perphaps it is time for new thread.

Kent arrange for a demonstration in your own home, the chap I used just sends you the dac and lets you decide, I think you will be surprised just how good a mac and Weiss can sound, whether it is better than the new naim we shall have to wait and see.

quote:

sends you the dac and lets

Yes, home demo is in order...just waiting on the Naim Dac!

At this moment, I don't have a Mac. I use PC/Win 7 64 bit/ Monkey media/ Empirical Audio USB convertor.

Is Mac sound better than PC? My extremely loving wife told me if I behave, she see a Mac Book Pro in my future.....

A dinner and flowers are not problems....but deep down I think it is just her appreaciation for the bling bling on hers ears I bought a few months back. For no other reasons but her hard works on our son.

The mini is pretty neat (and is silent too so it can go in the rack). A perfect companion to the Weiss and very good running Amarra.



James

Hi James,

I will look into the Mac mini and Amarra as an option. How is the interaction between the I-touch with the Mac mini/Amarra? I am currently using I-touch with my PC (imonkey/Media Monkey), it is very slow. Bloggin down on every move, very annoying.

I am also unfamilar with Amarra, what improvements does it make? Any suggestion on firewire cable?

quote:

Originally posted by kent:
Hi James,

I will look into the Mac mini and Amarra as an option. How is the interaction between the I-touch with the Mac mini/Amarra? I am currently using I-touch with my PC (imonkey/Media Monkey), it is very slow. Bloggin down on every move, very annoying.

I am also unfamilar with Amarra, what improvements does it make? Any suggestion on firewire cable?

Belkin PureAV Silver Firewire. Quite affordable. Very well shielded and looking good.

That looks a nice cable , unfortunately I don't think it comes in a 9 pin - 6 pin for the Mini as I can't seem to find one .

I've got a DAC2 arriving on Tuesday for a demo and I have got a Belkin firewire 800 9pin-6pin cable to use . I also would be interested to find out what others use .

quote:

Originally posted by AS332:
That looks a nice cable , unfortunately I don't think it comes in a 9 pin - 6 pin for the Mini as I can't seem to find one .

I've got a DAC2 arriving on Tuesday for a demo and I have got a Belkin firewire 800 9pin-6pin cable to use . I also would be interested to find out what others use .

You can use the very high quality Granite Digital 9 pin to 6 pin gender changer.




The other possibility is Sonnet.

Thanks for that .

Ed

I've got a Firewire cable that i found on an old cisco switch at work and another i just bought to use when setting up a new mac (firewire boot drive). Haven't noticed any difference between them. One thing i do need to try is a 4 wire connection so the power line from the computer in the 6 wire version isn't travelling up the cable to the DAC.

James