Brokeback Mountain

Dougunn

Why on earth should anyone be "pro gay" if they weren't actually..er..gay themselves?

I hate football. I detest cricket. I loathe horseracing. "Gay" comes a very long way down my list of things to not like. Does that make me a bad person?

Nime

Sorry if I was not clear.

IMHO opinion many people confuse tolerance of being gay with acceptance of it. A somewhat clumsy example is someone who will say "I have no problem with people being gay but I don't they should have the same rights as normal people"

This is just prejudice by stealth.

Using 'Pro-gay' I meant to imply someone (or something) which is entirely accepting of gay people i.e not placing conditions or boundaries under which it is tolerated.

To answer your question I would suggest that people might choose to be 'pro-gay' because they recognise gay people are just the same as any other apart from what they do in bed.

Do you have any gay friends? If so wouldn't you feel compelled to stand up for them if they were being persecuted?

Homophobia (and any prejudice) is born of ignorance, it is lazy thinking.

Douglas

Rasher-good post, I was about to say the same.

I hate horror flicks, and have no desire to see any of the classic films of the genre. This makes me the poorer as a lover of film but does not mean I am prejudiced against zombies or those with rotating heads.

I actually think that many who would automatically discount a gay-themed movie may enjoy this film. Posting here was meant to encourage those unsure about seeing it.

Go on Aric-for the sake of my argument!

Bruce

If you are not keen on violence - even fact based violence, I suggest that you do not go to see Jarhead which opens tomorrow. However if you want to get an appreciation of modern warfare it might be a useful starter

Bruce

quote:

I actually think that many who would automatically discount a gay-themed movie may enjoy this film. Posting here was meant to encourage those unsure about seeing it.

Absolutely! Succinctly put too!

Douglas

Douglas - "tolerance or tolerate" to me always means "will grudgingly overlook" and I think is the wrong word to use in general issues of race and sexuality, but unfortunately seems to be the word that has been adopted generally. I agree with you absolutely.

quote:

Originally posted by Dougunn:

Using 'Pro-gay' I meant to imply someone (or something) which is entirely accepting of gay people i.e not placing conditions or boundaries under which it is tolerated.

To answer your question I would suggest that people might choose to be 'pro-gay' because they recognise gay people are just the same as any other apart from what they do in bed.

Homophobia (and any prejudice) is born of ignorance, it is lazy thinking.

Douglas

It’s a big step to accuse of homophobia someone who would rather not see two gays humping in widescreen, isn’t it.

I’m quite happy for gays, and everybody else to have the same rights and responsibilities. Why you think anyone should change their film-going habits as a result is beyond me though.

You can call me old fashioned and I don't care if it swims, flies, walks or crawls on the land, I'm buggered if I want to watch it hump on widescreen.

quote:

It’s a big step to accuse of homophobia someone who would rather not see two gays humping in widescreen, isn’t it.

quote:

You can call me old fashioned and I don't care if it swims, flies, walks or crawls on the land, I'm buggered if I want to watch it hump on widescreen.

Why are you so fixated on the sexual scenes of the film?

In reality the sexual content of the film is extremely brief and, when compared with mainstream depiction of heterosexual encounters, positively tame.

To judge Brokeback Mountain on its 'bump and grind' content is to my mind prurient ignorant and shallow.

But then, if you have already decided it's not for you, you will never know . . . .

And where have I accused anyone of homophobia?

Douglas

Douglas

Your smiley sensor needs realignment.

Nime

quote:

Your smiley sensor needs realignment

Fair point. Perhaps I am in a cynical mood and mistakenly seeing prejudice masquerading as humor.

My apologies if this is so

Doug

quote:

Originally posted by Dougunn:

quote:

It’s a big step to accuse of homophobia someone who would rather not see two gays humping in widescreen, isn’t it.

quote:

You can call me old fashioned and I don't care if it swims, flies, walks or crawls on the land, I'm buggered if I want to watch it hump on widescreen.

Why are you so fixated on the sexual scenes of the film?

In reality the sexual content of the film is extremely brief and, when compared with mainstream depiction of heterosexual encounters, positively tame.

To judge Brokeback Mountain on its 'bump and grind' content is to my mind prurient ignorant and shallow.

But then, if you have already decided it's not for you, you will never know . . . .

And where have I accused anyone of homophobia?

Douglas

I haven't seen the film, probably won't either.

Weren't you implying that Aric was homophobic?

To broaden the debate, and hopefully get us away from the fingerpointing, can I suggest another movie that seems unpromising, and even repellent.

Last years film 'The Woodsman', with Kevin Bacon is an intelligent examination of a recently released paedophile coping with his reurn to society, and his urges. It is excrutiatingly uncomfortable to watch at times (although not at all explicit) but well worth seeing, not least for an astonishing performance by Bacon. Ignored by the Oscars because of the 'difficult' subject? Perhaps Brokeback will be the same?

Bruce

quote:

and hopefully get us away from the fingerpointing

Oops, is that me?

OK, confrontation mode off!

The Woodsman does indeed sound interesting. Cinema for me should be confrontational and challenging; sounds like this will hit the spot.

Douglas

Okay, well I checked the paper for the show times of the local theater, and surprise surprise it is not showing. I find this ironic because I vividly remember seeing a large poster inside the theater advertising it's release a couple of months ago. My guess is management didn't have the foggiest clue as to what the film was about. Being in the middle of bum-fucking no-where, the local theater is the only theater. So it looks like I don't have a choice anyway...or at least until the DVD comes out.

Douglas, I think gay people should have the same rights as anyone else. I don't care who anyone else wants to have sex with. That's their perrogative. I understand your point about the power of the film and its many other attributes. That's great. It's still a love story, and once again, that genre is really not my cup of tea. I watched Titanic because I was dragged to the theater. I'll begrudingly admit that it was an okay film, but I've only seen it once and have no plans to see it again. I'm not saying Brokeback is the same, but there are certainly parallels.

Aric

Aric

I'm sorry you'll miss out for now!

As for comparing it with the implausible, brainless, crowd pleasing tosh of a 'Lurve' story that is 'Titanic' forget it! Think more of the complexity of the relationship in the wonderful Mike Figgis film 'Leaving las Vegas' if you know it.

Bruce

Bruce,

Indeed I do, and it was a good film too.

Aric

It's a bad day when somebody can't say he doesn't fancy a film without being accused of being homophobic. I don't particularly fancy it either and wouldn't if it had been about a straight relationship. Folk have different tastes. Life sometimes is actually that simple.

Aric

quote:

Okay, well I checked the paper for the show times of the local theater, and surprise surprise it is not showing. I find this ironic because I vividly remember seeing a large poster inside the theater advertising it's release a couple of months ago. My guess is management didn't have the foggiest clue as to what the film was about. Being in the middle of bum-fucking no-where, the local theater is the only theater. So it looks like I don't have a choice anyway...or at least until the DVD comes out.

Good on you Aric - I hope when you do get to see it you can enjoy it despite the subject matter not being your thing. If you like intelligent well observed and acted film it will be worth your time.

Tom

quote:

It's a bad day when somebody can't say he doesn't fancy a film without being accused of being homophobic

I'm assuming your comment is directed at me. I suggested that Aric would be missing a quality film if he rejected Brokeback Mountain because of its gay content. Yes, I proposed he might not be 'pro-gay' - but that is not the same as suggesting he harboured the offensive prejudice and hostility of homophobia.

Doug

quote:

Originally posted by Dougunn:
Aric

quote:

Tom

[QUOTE] It's a bad day when somebody can't say he doesn't fancy a film without being accused of being homophobic

I'm assuming your comment is directed at me. I suggested that Aric would be missing a quality film if he rejected Brokeback Mountain because of its gay content. Yes, I proposed he might not be 'pro-gay' - but that is not the same as suggesting he harboured the offensive prejudice and hostility of homophobia.

Doug

Let's say your comments were open to interpretation. I don't think anybody ahould be expected to justify why he or she doesn't want to see a movie. Believe it or not the world is not a seething mass of anti-gay sentiment. Most folk are more concerned with their own lives and have many more relevant personal issues to fret over.

How you behave towards other people is more important to how they behave towards you than your appearance, race or sexual orientation. Carrying a chip on your shoulder makes one appear permanently unbalanced. Leaving the chip at home and carrying a smile instead could change your life.

It is odd how transparent the online medium is to chips, shoulders, egos and smiles.

You can find all of them, everywhere, every single day!

Tom

quote:

Let's say your comments were open to interpretation.

Naturally, and I hope I have erased any doubt over my meaning.

quote:

Believe it or not the world is not a seething mass of anti-gay sentiment. Most folk are more concerned with their own lives and have many more relevant personal issues to fret over.

Again I agree, however this is a forum for the exchange of ideas and thinking. Personally, I found it odd that, on a thread recommending a new film, Aric should announce that he won't be going to see it citing that he was "not interested in seeing a gay love story". Why would he say such a thing on a public forum if not seeking opinions and responses to his statement? Being of a passionately liberal and open mind I challenged his thinking with what I felt was a reasoned argument and, in Aric's defence, it seems this debate has piqued his curiosity and he is now curious to see the film - so, like I said, good on him!

Doug

Is the title Brokeback Mountain an inside joke on bareback?

Gay cowboys go down well at Golden Globes.